Series of Articles on NFHS Proposals

I would be willing to bet she misspoke and meant 16 minute halves.

[bballref3966]

I think the argument that the kids will get tired playing four more minutes is a little bit ridiculous. Four minutes more or less than 32 is not going to have a major impact on their fatigue. These kids want to be out there. Are we saying that we should limit the number of overtime periods to not tire the kids out? Basketball is innately a tiring activity, and upping the length of the game by four minutes will not make it a "more tiring" activity or more dangerous.

The other argument that I don't like is the one about kids getting done even later on a school night. If we take away two 1-plus minute intermissions by going to halves, that's a net addition of a mere two minutes, an extra four minutes of playing time minus at least two minutes of intermissions. If those two minutes are really that big of a concern, take less time in the locker room after the game.

I don't think these arguments should be reasons not to change to halves.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

I think the argument that the kids will get tired playing four more minutes is a little bit ridiculous. Four minutes more or less than 32 is not going to have a major impact on their fatigue. These kids want to be out there. Are we saying that we should limit the number of overtime periods to not tire the kids out? Basketball is innately a tiring activity, and upping the length of the game by four minutes will not make it a "more tiring" activity or more dangerous.

The other argument that I don't like is the one about kids getting done even later on a school night. If we take away two 1-plus minute intermissions by going to halves, that's a net addition difference of a mere two minutes, an extra four minutes of playing time minus at least two minutes of intermissions. If those two minutes are really that big of a concern, take less time in the locker room after the game.

I don't think these arguments should be reasons not to change to halves.

The players may not get tired playing an extra four minutes but I sure will if I have to officiate an extra four minutes, especially on days when I do not get my pre-lunch nap and my post lunch nap.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by bballref3966

I think the argument that the kids will get tired playing four more minutes is a little bit ridiculous. Four minutes more or less than 32 is not going to have a major impact on their fatigue. These kids want to be out there. Are we saying that we should limit the number of overtime periods to not tire the kids out? Basketball is innately a tiring activity, and upping the length of the game by four minutes will not make it a "more tiring" activity or more dangerous.

The other argument that I don't like is the one about kids getting done even later on a school night. If we take away two 1-plus minute intermissions by going to halves, that's a net addition of a mere two minutes, an extra four minutes of playing time minus at least two minutes of intermissions. If those two minutes are really that big of a concern, take less time in the locker room after the game.

I don't think these arguments should be reasons not to change to halves.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The players may not get tired playing an extra four minutes but I sure will if I have to officiate an extra four minutes, especially on days when I do not get my pre-lunch nap and my post lunch nap.

Not to mention getting in the bonus and double bonus more often, which further slows down the game and frustrates players and coaches.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not to mention getting in the bonus and double bonus more often, which further slows down the game and frustrates players and coaches.

They can adjust just like they do at the college level. Not a big deal if you ask me.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Regarding FTs, one of the questions on the NCAAW rules survey this year concerns returning to 1+1 on the 7th foul with no double bonus.

Thoughts on this at the HS level?

[SE Minnestoa Re]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Regarding FTs, one of the questions on the NCAAW rules survey this year concerns either returning to 1+1 on the 7th foul with no double bonus.

Thoughts on this at the HS level?

Awful idea for game flow. No reason to just keep pounding until the bench is empty. I like the idea of triple bonus after 13.

[paulsonj72]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I would be willing to bet she misspoke and meant 16 minute halves.

Who knows? 18 minute halves are used here in Minnesota and have been since the 2005-06 season. Don't know about official pay though.

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I would be willing to bet she misspoke and meant 16 minute halves.

I am not sure she misspoke. In the NFHS survey this year, they had a question about 18 minutes halves. I was confused as to why it wasn't 16. I am not sure why they wouldn't go to 16 instead of 18, but hey, that's two places the NFHS has used the 18 minute half talk now.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RefCT

I am not sure she misspoke. In the NFHS survey this year, they had a question about 18 minutes halves. I was confused as to why it wasn't 16. I am not sure why they wouldn't go to 16 instead of 18, but hey, that's two places the NFHS has used the 18 minute half talk now.

Once again, Minnesota went to 18 minute halves originally as an NF experimental rule. Minnesota like the rule and kept it. This has been several years this half proposal has been suggested as a new rule. It is not a new thing and of course has not passed. I actually do not see it passing this year either for the reasons we have stated like pay and players being tired. I guess we will see.

Peace

[Rich]

I've used the "will they raise officials pay 12.5%?" line myself, semi-jokingly.

That said, I really don't care. Two more of our conferences have moved to 3-person and both of them are paying the same rates as they did when 2-person (and that doesn't happen everywhere). I'll gladly work 4 extra minutes if we're working 3-person everywhere.

[Pantherdreams]

Seems like pretty standard fair nothing really earth shattering.

Checked out the breakdown of the costs for installing shot clocks. Based on personal experience and somle research. The costs in the linked article are inflated. Depending on what you want the clock to do and if you need it to interface with your current system are all factors in cost. In reality though the claim of 5,000 minimum cost is erroneous. You can get two portable/mountable clocks and the operating tablet/device that is wireless for anywhere from 800-1500. Most of the schools where we work have these sorts of devices and shot clocks. They aren't mounted on backboards/ tied into the scoreboard or connected to a jumbo tron or even hard wired in. They just hang them from the walls or roll them out at game times. Plug in the wireless consule next to the game clock and Bob's your uncle. I can't speak to upkeep costs or costs of minor officials since all the schools we work minor officials, AD's etc are primarily volunteer. But to be clear we've got schools making an invenstment in equipment that wll work at games for 4-6 teams per school for x number of years at a cost that is 1/2 or 1 full set of uniforms for 1 team that may last 3-5 years.

Now that isn't a reason to go to shot clocks but I don't think the cost is as big as a deterent as some think.

The issue with the shot clock is that as officials there is little/no upside for us specifically. More possessions, more broken plays, more rules, more responsiblity, more horns, whistles, interruptions and errors.

So from an officiating stand point it would be easier to not have a shot clock then to have one. It would also be easier to have no fouls, no out of bounds, just have us there to throw the jump ball and start/end games. So the real debate about shot clock has to
be a state of the game sort of debate. Schools have to calculate costs obviously but really it has to come down to what is better for the high school game and basketball in general.

So as the only really "for the shot clock guy" here I will post a token defense for the benefit of having a shot clock below as a greater good of the game thing. Have a great day.


How The Shot Clock Improves Player Development - theLLaBB

[JRutledge]

Yes cost is a big factor to this issue when schools in my state could not get new uniforms when the IHSA made a big deal out of enforcement of uniform rules to the letter. That is why Board of Directors had a special meeting to eliminate the enforcement of these rules a couple of years ago. These schools could not afford a few thousand dollars just to comply with the NF Rules. So the BOD took action and realized that these were not going to solve a problem when schools are being asked to play more money for all kinds of unrelated things not associated with sports. $800 is a lot to come up with when you might have to pay for other increase in fees.

Heck there were colleges that could not come up with the money to put a marking on their court for the restricted area when the rule came in place and now we expect high schools to come up with more money too for this rule?

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Playing halves would be interesting at the HS level. I think it would shorten the total length of each game by a few minutes...not to say that's even an issue now.

The shot clock idea looks like a solution in search of a problem to me. In 15+ years of HS officiating, I can only think of ONE team that played a "stall" offense and tried to hold the ball for lengthy periods...and that was at a summer camp. Is the "slow down" type of grind-it-out game REALLY being played with ANY degree of frquency, anywhere?

And let's be honest...the shot clock would be a nightmare from an administration standpoint. Schools (around here anyway) are challenged to run a regular clock and scoreboard correctly. Adding a shot clock to the mix would a huge problem...and probably lengthen the games (stop the game, meet with partner(s), walk over to the table and correct it multiple times a game)

My vote is thumbs down

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes cost is a big factor ...

All the head coaches in every varsity sport in Hampton, VA are getting their stipend cut by 25%.

No way that school district will be able to afford shot clocks anytime soon.