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Let's Go To The Videotape ...
NFHS 4-41 SHOOTING, TRY, TAP
ART. 1 The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne shooter. ART. 4 The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball becomes dead.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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I would counsel those of you who would count the goal in either the switching hands scenario or the temporary loss of control situation to take a few moments to consult the text of the rules for continuous motion. There are some very specific terms and phrases used therein, which don't mesh with scoring a goal in either of these instances.
NFHS Rule 4, Sec 11 ART. 1 Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight. ART. 2 If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight. Notice "habitual throwing movement", "complete the customary arm movement", and "usual throwing motion." Do any of those phrases apply to the actions of a player switching the ball from one hand to the other or regaining possession of a ball and shooting? Can you really state that the player finished his customary arm movement or that such is his usual throwing motion? Last edited by Nevadaref; Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 07:27pm. |
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I guess what I really meant was "throw" because that is what is used in the definition of how the try ends. If the player hasn't yet thrown the ball, is there a throw that can be deemed unsuccessful?
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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I tend to agree, however, with your conclusion on a ball that is knocked away from the shooter. That seems like a new attempt to me.
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Most definitely. Seen plenty of players ball fake one way and switch to the other hand for a scoop shot.
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So is a player who is fouled while pump-faking in the act of shooting? Is the fake part of his trying motion, which the rule permits him to finish?
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This is not a good comparison. It is a judgment call whether the try has started. By calling it a pump fake, you are telling us it has not. In this thread, it is a given that a try has started. The question is whether the try ends and another try starts or whether the try has simply been altered. I'm in the camp which says a player who maintains control may do anything necessary to complete the try after contact, but once the ball is released, voluntarily or not, it cannot be caught again and be part of the same try.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Not necessarily. But if the player is in the air, I'm not considering any of their movement a fake. The will be in one motion from the time the jump (and likely before) until they release the ball on a try or land.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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Are you saying that you would give an airborne player more "rights" than one who is in contact with the floor? |
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Not more rights but the time period they could possible remain airborne is so short that I think it could only be considered part of one motion. A player not airborne might be in motion just as long, or longer.
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JMO
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While an unusual situation, I thought that it would be worth discussing with the forum members and reflecting upon.
What stands out to me in the case of a player switching hands after being fouled is the text at the start of the second article: "If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, ..." Can we really state that the player had already started his try before being fouled when the ball was actually in his other hand? I guess I just don't see how a player can start his shooting motion with one hand and finish it with the other. That certainly isn't "customary" or "usual." |
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