End of game review

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And a Goal is made when the ball passes through the basket (or remains in), and the clock is stopped when a Goal is made (in the last 59.9 seconds)

Right. Got that.
NFHS 5-5-1
NCAA Rule 4, Section 33. Goal

A goal shall be made when:
a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through;

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes -- it's when the "top" of the ball gets through the bottom of the net.

What I'm looking for is the part about the top of the ball getting through the bottom of the net...


And to respectfully demonstrate my due diligence and/or awareness of the rules:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Look at the definition of the basket.

NFHS: 4-5-1
A team's own basket is the one into which its players try to throw or tap the ball.

Originally Posted by AremRed

And remember the net is considered part of the basket.

NFHS: 1-10-1
NCAA: Rule 1, Section 13, Article 1

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So, if the clock is late starting on the play, (less than a second late, I think?) player comes up the floor, watching the clock with no way of knowing that it is not correct, times his shot perfectly and releases it with .2 showing, only to have it wiped out?

This would be criminal.

I think John Adams addressed this during his segment on the post game show, but I wasn't able to hear what he said.

[Nevadaref]

This is what I was referring to:
NFHS
1-10-1:

Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

Now you tell me when the ball has passed through the basket.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is what I was referring to:
NFHS
1-10-1:

Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

Now you tell me when the ball has passed through the basket.

Maybe you didn't see this...

Originally Posted by Rooster

NFHS: 1-10-1
NCAA: Rule 1, Section 13, Article 1

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is what I was referring to:
NFHS
1-10-1:

Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

Now you tell me when the ball has passed through the basket.

OK, how 'bout this?

NFHS 5-5-1
NCAA Rule 4, Section 33. Goal

A goal shall be made when:
a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through;


What I want to know from Bob, whom I respect quite a bit, is where he got the bit about the top of the ball passing through the bottom of the net. It's not that I doubt him, but that I would rather be able to reference it myself. The reason I'm asking about this lies in the fact that I think there should have been 2.0 or 1.9 seconds on the clock after the made basket. I haven't been able to find anything that confirms that but watching the replays while the game was live made me think there should have been more time on the clock before the "starting the clock late" issue.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rooster

What I want to know from Bob, whom I respect quite a bit, is where he got the bit about the top of the ball passing through the bottom of the net. It's not that I doubt him, but that I would rather be able to reference it myself. The reason I'm asking about this lies in the fact that I think there should have been 2.0 or 1.9 seconds on the clock after the made basket. I haven't been able to find anything that confirms that but watching the replays while the game was live made me think there should have been more time on the clock before the "starting the clock late" issue.

Is it really through the basket if some of the ball is still in the basket?

[bob jenkins]

It hasn't passed through until it, well, passes through.

We've all seen the video of some NBA player dunking the ball and it hits his head and flies back out -- no basket, so the clock can't stop.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Is it really through the basket if some of the ball is still in the basket?

So how do you reconcile the following?

NFHS 5-5-1
NCAA Rule 4, Section 33. Goal

A goal shall be made when:
a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through;

[bob jenkins]

If it's still moving down, then it hasn't "remained in". I don't really see any conflict here.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rooster

What I want to know from Bob, whom I respect quite a bit, is where he got the bit about the top of the ball passing through the bottom of the net. It's not that I doubt him, but that I would rather be able to reference it myself. The reason I'm asking about this lies in the fact that I think there should have been 2.0 or 1.9 seconds on the clock after the made basket. I haven't been able to find anything that confirms that but watching the replays while the game was live made me think there should have been more time on the clock before the "starting the clock late" issue.

An object has not passed (through or by) another object until it is completely passed it. Until then, it is merely passING through.

So until A) it passes through (yes, all the way through), or B) it gets stuck - the goal is not completely.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If it's still moving down, then it hasn't "remained in". I don't really see any conflict here.

Nor do I. But what I was originally asking is:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes -- it's when the "top" of the ball gets through the bottom of the net.

Where did you get this? Is it in a rule book somewhere or is it a common-sense interpretation? If it's part of a rule I'd like to know which one. If it's a common-sense interpretation, I agree with it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rooster

Nor do I. But what I was originally asking is:



Where did you get this? Is it in a rule book somewhere or is it a common-sense interpretation? If it's part of a rule I'd like to know which one. If it's a common-sense interpretation, I agree with it.

Common sense. If it is still going through, it hasn't passed through, yet.

The "remains" phrase is allowing for a net that has become tangled for whatever reason.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Common sense. If it is still going through, it hasn't passed through, yet.

Kinda like a dribbler who has his head and shoulders past a defender and then makes contact with the defender's leg. Just being jerky...

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The "remains" phrase is allowing for a net that has become tangled for whatever reason.

Yep, never had question about this one.