Guarding the Post

[JRutledge]

The same rules apply for post as any other position on the floor in theory. You cannot put your hands on the ball handler to hold or direct an opponent. You cannot hold, push, grab, restrict and opponent and their movement. So a forearm to hold a player in place is illegal. Now will these get called without any consideration to other things? Not necessarily. But if you want to teach a player the right things, have them hold their position and move their feet. Any use of their arms or legs to contact and opponent is not legal on many levels.

I hope that helps a little, but I I would think to help you is to ask specific things that are either being called or not being called.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

The defenders are probably watching NCAA/NBA games and copying what they see. What's legal in those games isn't necessarily legal in a game officiated under HS/NFHS rules.

[bob jenkins]

All the above is true, but if the defender is using the arm within the defender's vertical space then it's (more likely to be) legal.

[Chippy4463]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

All the above is true, but if the defender is using the arm within the defender's vertical space then it's (more likely to be) legal.

Its hard to explain really just imagine shaq backing down kobe and kobes places himself with all is strength to stop shaw from moving

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Chippy4463

Its hard to explain really just imagine shaq backing down kobe and kobes places himself with all is strength to stop shaw from moving

It is not necessary for Kobe to use any strength. If he establishes himself between Shaq and the basket and Shaq backs over him, the foul is on Shaq.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The defenders are probably watching NCAA/NBA games and copying what they see. What's legal in those games isn't necessarily legal in a game officiated under HS/NFHS rules.

Not true when it comes to NCAA Men's games. The rules or philosophy is the exact same. Actually the NCAA Men's side put in their rules what is actually illegal when it comes to hand-checking, where the NF has only implied what is illegal. And nothing is different in the post as in the perimeter when it comes to the post in NCAA Men's' games.

Peace

[jeremy341a]

Note though that the post player "backing down" may not be legal which is what is causing the defenders to feel the need to use their forearm to try and prevent it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Note though that the post player "backing down" may not be legal which is what is causing the defenders to feel the need to use their forearm to try and prevent it.

Exactly. If you're letting the offense get away with pushing into the defender by backing them down, that's your main problem here.

[Rob1968]

This may be helpful:

2012-13 NFHS Rules Book POINTS OF EMPHASIS

4. Guidelines to enforce illegal contact. Escalating fight situations can often be traced back to illegal contact not being properly enforced and penalized.
a. Hand checking. Any tactic using hands or arms that allows a player on offense or defense to control the movement of an opposing player.
Examples of illegal contact are:
1) Both hands on an opposing player
2) Jabbing a hand or forearm on an opponent.
3) Continuous contact by a hand or forearm on an opponent.
b. Post play. Any tactic using hands, arms or body to control the movement of an opposing player.
Examples of illegal post play:
1) Hooking by the offensive player
2) Pushing, holding or slapping an opponent
3) Dislodging an opponent by using a leg or knee to the rear of an opponent
4) Dislodging an opponent by backing them down.

Please, note that a. 3) seems to define an armbar as illegal contact.
and that b.4) directly mentions "backing them (an opponent) down."

After all that, the judgement of the covering official comes into play, and may vary accordingly. . .sometimes you just have to officiate the game. . .

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Please, note that a. 3) seems to define an armbar as illegal contact.

While an arm bar is illegal, I don't think the OP is an arm bar -- it's a collapsed arm (at least in my mind's eye).

[Chippy4463]

Originally Posted by Adam

Exactly. If you're letting the offense get away with pushing into the defender by backing them down, that's your main problem here.

Im sorry if I sound stupid here but the offensive player is not allowed to back down ?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Chippy4463

Im sorry if I sound stupid here but the offensive player is not allowed to back down ?

If the defense is displaced, then it's a foul on the offense. If the defense gives way, then it's legal. Deciding which is which is wny we get paid the big bucks.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Chippy4463

Im sorry if I sound stupid here but the offensive player is not allowed to back down ?

Is he pushing the defender out of his way?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Chippy4463

Im sorry if I sound stupid here but the offensive player is not allowed to back down ?

He is not allowed to displace the defender. It's no different than taking 2 hands and shoving the defender backwards.

And it applies to rebounding also. You here folks complain "I/He was just boxing out".

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not true when it comes to NCAA Men's games. The rules or philosophy is the exact same. Actually the NCAA Men's side put in their rules what is actually illegal when it comes to hand-checking, where the NF has only implied what is illegal. And nothing is different in the post as in the perimeter when it comes to the post in NCAA Men's' games.

Peace

Sorry, Jeff. Every now and then I forget where NCAAM & NCAAW go their different ways. This was one where I thought the guidelines were the same. I have since taken a look at the men's rule book.