NCAA Tournament and Precision Timing

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Rich

One of the mechanics our crew had adopted is that when a ball is tied up, the crew blow whistles but do not signal until we verify that none of us have a foul, have granted a timeout, etc. Then and only then do we give the two thumbs up.

I tell my partners this during our pregame. We also have gone away from the open-hand mechanic on a held ball. I will just blow my whistle and make eye contact before giving the signal in case they have anything. Nothing looks worse than giving the held ball mechanic while your partner is standing there with his fist up about to give a preliminary signal for a foul.

[MD Longhorn]

I think it's rather embarrassing (to the NCAA) that something which is rather seamless during the season is such a mess during their showcase event. The drama factor in these games, with the constant stoppages, is was less than it could be.

Originally Posted by zm1283

Nothing looks worse than giving the held ball mechanic while your partner is standing there with his fist up about to give a preliminary signal for a foul.

Which is why I use the open-hand stop-clock signal on all held balls. Whats the rush? If the players are tied up everyone knows what is coming. Plus if I have a hand and my partner has a fist, no one will notice.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Plus if I have a hand and my partner has a fist, no one will notice.

I disagree with this part.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

I disagree with this part.

Some will, sure, but it won't be nearly as bad as if one comes up with thumbs and they have to go with a foul call.

[Rich]

So what's the argument against just the whistle?

Originally Posted by Rich

So what's the argument against just the whistle?

The lightbulb in my head just went on! Very sneaky, I like it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Which is why I use the open-hand stop-clock signal on all held balls. Whats the rush? If the players are tied up everyone knows what is coming. Plus if I have a hand and my partner has a fist, no one will notice.

So, you indicate a violation when there is no violation? Why not do what the book says? Even if you do as you indicate, you still have to discuss the situation since you can't know that your partner's foul was before or after your held ball that you're not properly signaling.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

So, you indicate a violation when there is no violation?

I was not aware an open hand signalled a violation! I suggest you check out the Official NFHS Basketball Signals page in the rulebook (page 72) and tell me what an open hand signals.

And yes I am aware of Officials Manual 3.4.3B. Not giving the thumbs right away allows the crew to be on the same page and make sure no one has a foul.

[bob jenkins]

Well, #3 is specifically for a held ball, and #4 is specifically for a foul. (I pulled those off of some website from RefMag, so the specific numbers might vary)

You can use #2 for any other reason -- but given the play in question, what else would it be other than a violation?

And, I would guess that over 90% of varsity coaches in this area will notice the open hand v. fist as much as they would notice the thumbs v. fist, so you're going to have the same (or similar) discussion.

either don't give any signal, or signal what you have. I prefer the latter, but I understand how / why some prefer the former.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I was not aware an open hand signalled a violation! I suggest you check out the Official NFHS Basketball Signals page in the rulebook (page 72) and tell me what an open hand signals.

And yes I am aware of Officials Manual 3.4.3B. Not giving the thumbs right away allows the crew to be on the same page and make sure no one has a foul.

You may not be signaling a violation, specifically, but by not using the signal that IS defined for a held ball, you are signaling that you don't have a held ball. So what is it that you could be signaling? The only logical choices are a violation or a timeout.

Also, why not use an open hand for fouls too if you want a generic stopclock signal without committing to a call.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You may not be signaling a violation, specifically, but by not using the signal that IS defined for a held ball, you are signaling that you don't have a held ball.

Not at all. I am signalling to stop the clock, which is the most important thing. This, combined with the whistle tells the players to stop struggling. There is no reason why the held-ball signal cannot come later as a type of preliminary signal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not at all. I am signalling to stop the clock, which is the most important thing. This, combined with the whistle tells the players to stop struggling. There is no reason why the held-ball signal cannot come later as a type of preliminary signal.

The players don't see your hand. Most coaches don't either. I would submit that the only people that would either see or care about your invented hand signals are people who would have a problem with it (supervisors, et al). So you're doing something that doesn't have any positive effect - which could possibly be seen negatively by a select few. I'd drop it. Whistle does ALL of the positive things you're trying to accomplish... leave it at that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not at all. I am signalling to stop the clock, which is the most important thing. This, combined with the whistle tells the players to stop struggling. There is no reason why the held-ball signal cannot come later as a type of preliminary signal.

Then, why don't you also go with the open hand on a foul?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not at all. I am signalling to stop the clock, which is the most important thing. This, combined with the whistle tells the players to stop struggling. There is no reason why the held-ball signal cannot come later as a type of preliminary signal.

The reason is expressed on the "Official NFHS Basketball Signals" chart, where #3 is the "Stop clock for jump/held ball" signal. It is the one and only signal needed, and authorized for that call.
I have, for several years, done the "whistle, quickly check partner(s), then the jump/held ball signal." It takes a very short moment, and keeps me in line with NFHS and our Supervisor. He and his staff of evaluators want only that signal on that call.
But, to each his own.