Two first's in one game...

[BigT]

AAU game 8th graders vs 7th graders. Big power forward for the 8th graders gets tied up in the pain by a skinny small forward. I come in fast as lead and blow the whistle for the held ball. Power forward is not happy leans into the kid two hand shoves the kid who goes down a split second after my whistle goes off. A lot of frustration and I say you are out of here. I have never ejected a kid in 2k games. Dead ball T, IF, or Flag T... started going through my mind. DBT or IF same consequence..... why would he shove him like that.. we just started this game.. I decide to go IF and the two score keepers... (dads) and the two coaches are starting to go at it pretty hard. My partner settles them down and Sunday I got thinking...should I have ejected this kid... This is my first IF in 2k games where it is not at the end of the game or someone just being to physical and trying to stop a shot attempt. This looked more like intimidation. It feel more than an IF and I wanted to hear some opinions here. You guys have helped my PF vs IF to the point I am super comfortable with my IF calls. Yet this IF vs Ejection line I hadnt seen before.

Crazy part is this kid was more emotional than any player I had ever refereed. He ranted, mostly under his breath after warnings for fouls against him. The second thing he did and a first for me was the butt attack. He could rebound and often lead the fast break. He was pretty good at it. And of course you know kids will fly behind a rebounder hoping when they start to dribble they might pick his pocket. This team twice shot behind him and twice he saw them coming and ejected his butt into their path and sent the smaller 7th grader flying. I was in shock the first time and ready for the 2nd one and called a PC foul. Was it the right call.

Thanks in advance for you advice on these two first's for me in 2k games...

[deecee]

Sounds like only a garden variety T for the shove during a dead ball.

The butt this isn't a PC unless he has the ball, but it is a TCF.

[Welpe]

Without seeing the shove, if it was violent enough a flagrant T could definitely be justified. Otherwise, it's a T for the intentional dead ball foul.

[BigT]

Have you two had a ejection for a shove? Or does it have to be a fight or attempt swing to get a kid ejection for a single situation?

Thanks for your comments.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BigT

Have you two had a ejection for a shove?

Yes, once. It was an end of game situation when the winning team stole the ball and drove for an uncontested layup. A player who had been a problem child all game comes running in and gives him a violent two handed shove in the back while he's airborne.

I have not had a shove like yours in a game that put the opponent on the ground.

Or does it have to be a fight or attempt swing to get a kid ejection for a single situation?

Not necessarily. You have to ask yourself if the act rises to the level of the definition of a flagrant foul or not. Fighting is probably the most common occurrence but by no means the only one.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Yes, once. It was an end of game situation when the winning team stole the ball and drove for an uncontested layup. A player who had been a problem child all game comes running in and gives him a violent two handed shove in the back while he's airborne.

I have not had a shove like yours in a game that put the opponent on the ground.



Not necessarily. You have to ask yourself if the act rises to the level of the definition of a flagrant foul or not. Fighting is probably the most common occurrence but by no means the only one.

It is just so rare to have a flagrant T I thinks its hard to define it outside a swing or taking the guy into the bleachers where everyone sees they are seriously hurt and need to be ejected.

Thanks Welpe for your feedback.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigT

Have you two had a ejection for a shove? Or does it have to be a fight or attempt swing to get a kid ejection for a single situation?

Thanks for your comments.

A few years ago in a freshman boys game, we had a good sized linebacker playing for the visiting team. In the first quarter, he was behind an opponent going in for a layup and shoved him. I called the intentional.

Third quarter, he does it again, this time on a smaller player. My rookie partner went with the flagrant and it was the best call of the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigT

.. ejected his butt.

The NFHS just has to come up with an approved signal for this. It just has to.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by billymac

the nfhs just has to come up with an approved signal for this. It just has to.

roflmao

[Dexter555]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The NFHS just has to come up with an approved signal for this. It just has to.

It's a complicated signal, the only one I know of that requires multiple officials, and varies for two-person or three-person games:
Two-person:


Three-person:

[j51969]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The NFHS just has to come up with an approved signal for this. It just has to.

+1

I can't find a good reason not to have a signal that conveys an immediate ejection.