Foul During AP Throw-In

[Raymond]

I hope this was a regular season game, and that this official will not be working any postseason games.

TI ends when legally touched or the throw-in team violates. And if Team A had committed the foul, the arrow also would have stayed with A.

So you are right.

[Gargil]

It was for the conference championship and there was not another AP throw-in so it did not affect the outcome of the game, but it sure could have.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Gargil

It was for the conference championship and there was not another AP throw-in so it did not affect the outcome of the game, but it sure could have.

Conference championship game and this guy is the best official the assignor can come up with? I too would be out of hope if this happened in any of the leagues I work in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I hope this was a regular season game, and that this official will not be working any postseason games.

TI ends when legally touched or the throw-in team violates. And if Team A had committed the foul, the arrow also would have stayed with A.

So you are right.

I'm out of that hope.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I hope this was a regular season game, and that this official will not be working any postseason games.

TI ends when legally touched or the throw-in team violates. And if Team A had committed the foul, the arrow also would have stayed with A.

So you are right.

I thought if A committed a violation on their throw-in that they indeed would lose the arrow. Would this be the applicable case play?

6.4.5 SITUATION A:

Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating procedure. A1 commits a violation.


RULING: B's ball for a throw-in because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is pointed towards B's basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under the alternating *procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation. A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only way a team loses its turn under the procedure.

COMMENT: If a foul by either team occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as required and play continues as it *normally would, but the possession arrow is not reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in ends. (6-4-4)

*******************************************

EDITED TO ADD: Never mind, violation <> foul. Doh.

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I thought if A committed a violation on their throw-in that they indeed would lose the arrow.

I'm not sure if this was added later or not, but what it prevents is team A getting a throw in via AP arrow with 1.3 secs left in a quarter and then just taking a 5 sec so they can try and start the next quarter with the ball. You can imagine the disaster that would lead to...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

I'm not sure if this was added later or not, but what it prevents is team A getting a throw in via AP arrow with 1.3 secs left in a quarter and then just taking a 5 sec so they can try and start the next quarter with the ball. You can imagine the disaster that would lead to...

I think disaster would be a bit strong for this.

[Toren]

This same thing happened earlier this year to me, except Team A committed a team control foul.

The R on the game wanted to change the arrow, I told him it remains because the throw end didn't end. For some reason my partner didn't believe me and asked my other partner...who told him it should be reversed

At this point, he decides he does believe me and leaves the arrow the same. We discussed after the game and I showed them the rules that govern the ruling.

My 2 partners are well respected and good play callers. I would work any game with them, but I just know I better brush up on my rules before we do

[Rich]

We could go an entire season without having to really know some of the more detailed rules of the game.

Or something could happen right in front of us the next play that requires us to recall a rule.

Thing that drove this home for me was at an association meeting earlier this season when a lot of people didn't really know the rules regarding players leaving the bench and participating or not participating in a fight. I think maybe 1 person in the room had had a bench-clearing fight situation in the past and it was years prior.

So I started thinking about it -- wouldn't that be the absolute worst time for you to have to worry about not knowing the rules or the penalty application -- just after there was a bench-clearing situation?

This one should be easy for a varsity crew, but the OP proves that it wasn't - at least for that one.

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by Adam

I think disaster would be a bit strong for this.

The disaster I was implying was the teams holding for 5 sec violations back and forth and back and forth...

[johnny d]

Rich, I understand what you are saying. I agree, things like the fight rules that might only happen once in a career could be tough to know. Granted a foul by the throw in team doesn't occur often, but there are multiple throw ins every game. There is no excuse to not know when a throw in ends. I would put this in the basic knowledge category.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Rich, I understand what you are saying. I agree, things like the fight rules that might only happen once in a career could be tough to know. Granted a foul by the throw in team doesn't occur often, but there are multiple throw ins every game. There is no excuse to know when a throw in ends. I would put this in the basic knowledge category.

It's when an AP throw-in ends, though. And 95%+ of them end when the ball's touched on the floor.

[Gargil]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

The disaster I was implying was the teams holding for 5 sec violations back and forth and back and forth...

This could happen if the rule has no exceptions. Is there an exception?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Gargil

This could happen if the rule has no exceptions. Is there an exception?

He's suggesting a what-if scenario. As in, what if the rule were different than it is now?

As it is now, a 5 second violation causes the arrow to switch.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

The disaster I was implying was the teams holding for 5 sec violations back and forth and back and forth...

Wouldn't happen. If A commits a 5 second violation (under your hypothetical situation where the arrow did not change following a throw in violation), B's ensuing throw in would not be an AP throw in, so B would have no incentive to do the same thing.