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-   -   Plenty of fun on this one (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97296-plenty-fun-one-video.html)

Camron Rust Mon Feb 17, 2014 02:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren (Post 923202)
You think the Trail knew the situation? why did he need the coach to basically run into him to acknowledge him?

Because his #1 priority during a live ball is the game on the floor.

As for whether it was after the release or not, who cares? The coach asked for it, the official heard it, verified that his team had player control, then granted it. If whistles normally occurred the very moment of the request/violation/foul, we'd be talking about how many inadvertent whistles were in every game.

Camron Rust Mon Feb 17, 2014 03:01am

Was there anything to see other than the timeout/canceled buzzer beater?

(Not watching 14 minutes of video to find out)

Raymond Mon Feb 17, 2014 06:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 923218)
Was there anything to see other than the timeout/canceled buzzer beater?

(Not watching 14 minutes of video to find out)

No, that was the crux of this thread.

JetMetFan Mon Feb 17, 2014 06:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 923193)
My thinking was: the whistle stops the clock. The whistle occurred after the release.

In this instance, when the whistle is blown it's up to the crew to come together to determine whether the time-out should have been granted (i.e., was a player on white in control of the ball). As johnny d said, either you grant the time-out, cancel the goal and put the correct time back on the clock or you don't grant the time-out, count the goal and everybody goes home.


Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 923193)
There are some instances in which a dead ball is scored.

No, there aren't.

NFHS 5-1-1
A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through.

BillyMac Mon Feb 17, 2014 07:12am

A Few ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 923193)
There are some instances in which a dead ball is scored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 923220)
No, there aren't.

Defensive basket interference. Defensive goaltending.

JetMetFan Mon Feb 17, 2014 07:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 923221)
Defensive basket interference. Defensive goaltending.

My mistake. Thanks, Billy.

At any rate, granting a time-out while a try is in flight wouldn't be one of those situations.

Rich Mon Feb 17, 2014 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 923217)
Because his #1 priority during a live ball is the game on the floor.

As for whether it was after the release or not, who cares? The coach asked for it, the official heard it, verified that his team had player control, then granted it. If whistles normally occurred the very moment of the request/violation/foul, we'd be talking about how many inadvertent whistles were in every game.

Your first sentence is a nice slogan, but if this timeout is missed and the shot misses, the only perception that matters is that the crew has no game awareness and missed the timeout request.

I have no problem with how this was administered. The timing of the whistle means absolutely nothing to me. The timeout was obviously requested before the shot and it was granted. Nothing to see here - put time back on the clock, grant the timeout, and play on.

Welpe Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:06am

The coach knew he blew it. He iced his own shooter...ouch.

They handled the TO properly. The coach put them in a bad situation to start with. I'm no so sure I'd be expecting a TO from the coach as his shooter is pulling up for a last second shot but this is a good lesson be prepared for anything.

referee99 Mon Feb 17, 2014 01:22pm

For Brevity
 
The 3 minute version:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gZQ6gVd4VeU?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nevadaref Mon Feb 17, 2014 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 923227)
The timing of the whistle means absolutely nothing to me.

It should. If it was blown prior to time expiring, then there will be time left on the game clock.
The officials can rule this play one of two ways.
1. The time-out was properly requested prior to the player control ending, but acknowledged a little late. Restore time to when the whistle sounded and white has the ball for a sideline throw-in.
2. The time-out request was not heard and properly granted until after the try was released, in which case the goal counts. The whistle still stops the clock and the team is still charged with the time-out which was requested, but erroneously granted. (It's erroneously granted in this case because it was acknowledged at point when it should not have been--there was no player control.) Resume the game at the POI = endline throw-in for Green.

What the officials cannot do is what one poster suggested and ignore the whistle, count the goal, and declare the game over. That's wrong by rule. The game clock must stop when the whistle is sounded.

Camron Rust Mon Feb 17, 2014 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 923227)
Your first sentence is a nice slogan, but if this timeout is missed and the shot misses, the only perception that matters is that the crew has no game awareness and missed the timeout request.

And if, while the official turns around to see who is requesting that timeout (it could be an assistant or someone in the stands right behind the coach) his player gets fouled while releasing the 3 and you miss that, what then?

When there is action on the floor, the #1 priority is the action. I'm not turning my attention away from imminent action to if a coach might be calling timeout.

Being aware of the game just means that, but sometimes you can't turn away from the game in front of you.

johnny d Mon Feb 17, 2014 03:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 923280)

What the officials cannot do is what one poster suggested and ignore the whistle, count the goal, and declare the game over. That's wrong by rule. The game clock must stop when the whistle is sounded.


Yes, this can easily be done by rule. The whistle is blowing as the horn starts to sound. Game over. Whistle is too late to stop the clock. It is that simple. Don't worry though, you will still be the first person I call if I ever need some rules help.:rolleyes:

Rich Mon Feb 17, 2014 04:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 923280)
It should. If it was blown prior to time expiring, then there will be time left on the game clock.
The officials can rule this play one of two ways.
1. The time-out was properly requested prior to the player control ending, but acknowledged a little late. Restore time to when the whistle sounded and white has the ball for a sideline throw-in.
2. The time-out request was not heard and properly granted until after the try was released, in which case the goal counts. The whistle still stops the clock and the team is still charged with the time-out which was requested, but erroneously granted. (It's erroneously granted in this case because it was acknowledged at point when it should not have been--there was no player control.) Resume the game at the POI = endline throw-in for Green.

What the officials cannot do is what one poster suggested and ignore the whistle, count the goal, and declare the game over. That's wrong by rule. The game clock must stop when the whistle is sounded.

I mean the fact that the whistle doesn't blow until the shot's in the air means nothing to me - I'm still granting the timeout if I acknowledged it (before I get air in the whistle) before the shot's in the air.

saluki34 Mon Feb 17, 2014 04:58pm

Assuming that the officials got it right with the granted timeout with time on the clock,
what scenarios would you T up the Home team player for hanging on the rim during a time out?

OKREF Mon Feb 17, 2014 05:14pm

So he gets the time out and the best play he draws up is a half court heave? I half expected it to go in.


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