Plenty of fun on this one (Video)
 

The 3 minute summation:
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The longer versions.
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Umm...could you narrow it down to the time code we're supposed to be watching?

Just watch the last video since you can kind of see the game clock during the sequence.

By rule the officials did nothing wrong. By mechanics, I really wish the new Trail had been more urgent in granting the time-out. By the time he seems to be reacting to the request, it is well after A1 has released the shot.

I didn't see it but could a player or the coach from the home team have called time out before the buzzer beater shot? I did see the C frantically waving off the basket but then the camera didn't show him or the other officials after that untikl they were at the table.

Yes, White HC was granted a time-out. Official blew his whistle after shot was released.

Obligatory rim hang
 

by White when celebrating their 'victory'.

Don't watch the middle video, just the first and the last.

Where is Lead on the initial blocking foul?? Should have been at close-down, and should have gotten that foul. Instead he's loitering at the 3-point line!?!

The whistle occurred while the ball was in flight. Count the basket, put whatever time the officials have definite knowledge of back on the clock, and give green an endline throw-in. Partners should be coming with this info.

No chance. Timeout was acknowledged before the shot. Let's start a 4 page argument about when the timeout is actually granted now. :rolleyes:

What are you talking about? Either the timeout was before the shot occurred, set the clock, and white gets the ball for a throw in, or the timeout was after the ball was released, the basket counts, and the game is over. Why would you ever count the basket and put time back on the clock?

My thinking was: the whistle stops the clock. The whistle occurred after the release. There are some instances in which a dead ball is scored. Therefore, count the basket, add whatever time an official had definite knowledge of, grant the timeout, and give green an endline throw-in, which was the point of interruption.

I know you know your shit, can you educate me please?

You probably need to look at a little Rules Fundamental (#16)

"The official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)."

Peace

I wonder when the game was played. These are two schools in my area, and I have a JV girls games at this gym next week. That ought to be a fun pregame conference. :D

I would definitely like to see the Trail take a look at the bench...we gotta anticipate the coach wanting to call a timeout. And I have no idea what the Lead is doing, he could have also been anticipating a timeout by the coach as well, but he seems like he is completely lost.

However, with all that said, the acknowledgement of the timeout was well after ball is in the air. No timeout, sorry coach, you win the game though.

I do not think it is an issue of knowing the situation. Sometimes coaches over think their role and do something prematurely. It seems like the coach was asking for a timeout while his player was clearly getting ready to shoot the ball.

This is another reason coaches should not be requesting timeouts.

Peace

You think the Trail knew the situation? why did he need the coach to basically run into him to acknowledge him?

Because his #1 priority during a live ball is the game on the floor.

As for whether it was after the release or not, who cares? The coach asked for it, the official heard it, verified that his team had player control, then granted it. If whistles normally occurred the very moment of the request/violation/foul, we'd be talking about how many inadvertent whistles were in every game.

Was there anything to see other than the timeout/canceled buzzer beater?

(Not watching 14 minutes of video to find out)

No, that was the crux of this thread.

In this instance, when the whistle is blown it's up to the crew to come together to determine whether the time-out should have been granted (i.e., was a player on white in control of the ball). As johnny d said, either you grant the time-out, cancel the goal and put the correct time back on the clock or you don't grant the time-out, count the goal and everybody goes home.


No, there aren't.

NFHS 5-1-1
A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through.

A Few ...
 

Defensive basket interference. Defensive goaltending.

My mistake. Thanks, Billy.

At any rate, granting a time-out while a try is in flight wouldn't be one of those situations.

Your first sentence is a nice slogan, but if this timeout is missed and the shot misses, the only perception that matters is that the crew has no game awareness and missed the timeout request.

I have no problem with how this was administered. The timing of the whistle means absolutely nothing to me. The timeout was obviously requested before the shot and it was granted. Nothing to see here - put time back on the clock, grant the timeout, and play on.

The coach knew he blew it. He iced his own shooter...ouch.

They handled the TO properly. The coach put them in a bad situation to start with. I'm no so sure I'd be expecting a TO from the coach as his shooter is pulling up for a last second shot but this is a good lesson be prepared for anything.

For Brevity
 

The 3 minute version:

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It should. If it was blown prior to time expiring, then there will be time left on the game clock.
The officials can rule this play one of two ways.
1. The time-out was properly requested prior to the player control ending, but acknowledged a little late. Restore time to when the whistle sounded and white has the ball for a sideline throw-in.
2. The time-out request was not heard and properly granted until after the try was released, in which case the goal counts. The whistle still stops the clock and the team is still charged with the time-out which was requested, but erroneously granted. (It's erroneously granted in this case because it was acknowledged at point when it should not have been--there was no player control.) Resume the game at the POI = endline throw-in for Green.

What the officials cannot do is what one poster suggested and ignore the whistle, count the goal, and declare the game over. That's wrong by rule. The game clock must stop when the whistle is sounded.

And if, while the official turns around to see who is requesting that timeout (it could be an assistant or someone in the stands right behind the coach) his player gets fouled while releasing the 3 and you miss that, what then?

When there is action on the floor, the #1 priority is the action. I'm not turning my attention away from imminent action to if a coach might be calling timeout.

Being aware of the game just means that, but sometimes you can't turn away from the game in front of you.

Yes, this can easily be done by rule. The whistle is blowing as the horn starts to sound. Game over. Whistle is too late to stop the clock. It is that simple. Don't worry though, you will still be the first person I call if I ever need some rules help.:rolleyes:

I mean the fact that the whistle doesn't blow until the shot's in the air means nothing to me - I'm still granting the timeout if I acknowledged it (before I get air in the whistle) before the shot's in the air.

Assuming that the officials got it right with the granted timeout with time on the clock,
what scenarios would you T up the Home team player for hanging on the rim during a time out?

So he gets the time out and the best play he draws up is a half court heave? I half expected it to go in.

Grasping ...
 

10-3-3: A player shall not: Grasp either basket at any time during the game except to prevent
injury; dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball.

10-4-1-I: Bench personnel ... shall not: Grasping either basket except to prevent injury; dunking or stuffing, or
attempting to dunk or stuff a dead ball.

We know the rule, Billy. You calling this knowing the player thought the game was over?

What? Who? Where? When?
 

I'm not even sure that I would see it happening. In this situation, my partner, and I, would probably be meeting to discuss what the hell just happened, and how we're going to proceed. I thought saluki34 was looking for a rule reference.

Sometimes kids can do weird things, and sometimes officials can do weirder things:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post923016

I know what the rule says, I was more interested in seeing how many of you would actually assess the T to the player in this situation, if any of the crew saw it?

How much of the game scenario do you take into consideration when deciding to assess the T or not?

The letter of the law says you T him up, but???? interested in game management/scenario thoughts from you all.

I'd T him up.

I would not T up the player here. I would also NOT put the amount of time on the clock from when the whistle was blown but rather when the TO was granted. In this case it would be less than a second difference.

Just from seeing this again I would guess these officials did it right (not sure about the hanging on the rim though). I note the C frantically waving off the basket. Although the video doesn't show it one can surmise he must have seen or heard the coach call TO before the shot was in the air. Again, it's not on the video but if this is the case then it was the right call.

It's on the 2nd video, at 0:27 of the video.

You are correct. He even accidently brushed up into that official. He asked for time out before the shot was released.