Marcus Smart shove - OK State/Texas Tech (Video)

[Welpe]

One thing for sure, anything the fan said to set Smart off would have been heard by several people. If it was racial, I hope Tech does the right thing.

[Nevadaref]

From an ESPN report on the game:

Big 12 coordinator of officials Curtis Shaw told ESPN that the officials don't have jurisdiction to eject a player who is involved in an altercation with a fan.

"There is no precedent for that," Shaw said. "Our rules are for flagrant (foul) 1 or 2. We don't have grounds for dealing with a fan. We don't have a rule to get involved when the player is involved with a fan. We don't know what was said. The official, Doug Sirmons, didn't know what was said."

Shaw said anything involving a fan is up to the host school.

"That's up to the security of the home team and the conference," Shaw said. "We've never had a fan with a player incident before."

[junruh07]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

From an ESPN report on the game:

Big 12 coordinator of officials Curtis Shaw told ESPN that the officials don't have jurisdiction to eject a player who is involved in an altercation with a fan.

"There is no precedent for that," Shaw said. "Our rules are for flagrant (foul) 1 or 2. We don't have grounds for dealing with a fan. We don't have a rule to get involved when the player is involved with a fan. We don't know what was said. The official, Doug Sirmons, didn't know what was said."

Shaw said anything involving a fan is up to the host school.

"That's up to the security of the home team and the conference," Shaw said. "We've never had a fan with a player incident before."

Since they haven't had an incident before, of course there would be no precedent. I would have been ok if they had set one and tossed the player and the fan. That is just completely unacceptable behavior from the player, but it's obvious that the fan said something to provoke the action. Having done it himself, I'm sure Mr. Shaw can't get that upset at his officials for removing fans.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

From an ESPN report on the game:

Big 12 coordinator of officials Curtis Shaw told ESPN that the officials don't have jurisdiction to eject a player who is involved in an altercation with a fan.

"There is no precedent for that," Shaw said. "Our rules are for flagrant (foul) 1 or 2. We don't have grounds for dealing with a fan. We don't have a rule to get involved when the player is involved with a fan. We don't know what was said. The official, Doug Sirmons, didn't know what was said."

Shaw said anything involving a fan is up to the host school.

"That's up to the security of the home team and the conference," Shaw said. "We've never had a fan with a player incident before."

I have to wonder what earned the T then. Judging by the timing, it's something he said to the ref.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I have to wonder what earned the T then. Judging by the timing, it's something he said to the ref.

Just perusing the rule book, trying to find something that might fit:

Rule 10 Sec 3 Art. 1 c - inciting undesirable crowd reaction.

I find it interesting that fighting does NOT specifically state it has to involve 2 players against EACH OTHER.

Rule 10 Sec 5 Art. 2. - A fight is a confrontation involving one or more players, coaches or other team personnel wherein (but not limited to) a fist, hand, arm, foot, knee or leg is used to combatively strike the other individual.

[OkieZebra]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

From an ESPN report on the game:

Big 12 coordinator of officials Curtis Shaw told ESPN that the officials don't have jurisdiction to eject a player who is involved in an altercation with a fan.

"There is no precedent for that," Shaw said. "Our rules are for flagrant (foul) 1 or 2. We don't have grounds for dealing with a fan. We don't have a rule to get involved when the player is involved with a fan. We don't know what was said. The official, Doug Sirmons, didn't know what was said."

Shaw said anything involving a fan is up to the host school.

"That's up to the security of the home team and the conference," Shaw said. "We've never had a fan with a player incident before."

Yes, the Big XII has had an incident like that.



I'd say the incident where the entire UT team ended up in the crowd was worse. So maybe it isn't precedent.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by OkieZebra

Yes, the Big XII has had an incident like that.



I'd say the incident where the entire UT team ended up in the crowd was worse. So maybe it isn't precedent.

Thanks for sharing the clip.

Good thing deecee was out there getting the ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Toren

Thanks for sharing the clip.

Good thing deecee was out there getting the ball.

I am sorry, but you sound really silly. For one college basketball at this level is nothing like HS basketball or even small college. If you think I am going into the stands to get players, you have lost your feakin mind. For one that is all I need is a lawsuit for grabbing someone that gets punched or contacted in some way or have that happen to me. These officials in many cases are getting paid thousands of dollars to work those games. If they want to go into the stands and grab players, go right ahead, but most know better. And in this situation that happen this weekend, I did not see a single official going to get Smart or any of the players. The officials stayed on the floor as they should have.

Now you can go right ahead, but there have been lawsuits based on what officials did to brake up fights. And then you go into a fight where the many people could be throwing thngs are going. Even in the Malice in the Palace, I did not see the officials leave the floor to get players out of the stands. Stop it already with that nonsense.

Peace

[OKREF]

If you listen to the clip, the announcer says there were no ejections and the only T given was for leaving the bench. Maybe Shaw knows what he is talking about.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you think I am going into the stands to get players, you have lost your feakin mind.

This.

In any sport I work, in any level, there is no way I'm going into the stands. That is the domain of game administration and the fans.

Going into the stands is akin to a stray bird landing in the hyena pen at the zoo just before feeding time. No need to paint that target on your back because there isn't a thing you can really do to protect that player.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by Welpe

This.

In any sport I work, in any level, there is no way I'm going into the stands. That is the domain of game administration and the fans.

Going into the stands is akin to a stray bird landing in the hyena pen at the zoo just before feeding time. No need to paint that target on your back because there isn't a thing you can really do to protect that player.

I don't even like sitting in the stands watching the first half of the JV game before heading off to the dressing room.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am sorry, but you sound really silly. For one college basketball at this level is nothing like HS basketball or even small college. If you think I am going into the stands to get players, you have lost your feakin mind. For one that is all I need is a lawsuit for grabbing someone that gets punched or contacted in some way or have that happen to me. These officials in many cases are getting paid thousands of dollars to work those games. If they want to go into the stands and grab players, go right ahead, but most know better. And in this situation that happen this weekend, I did not see a single official going to get Smart or any of the players. The officials stayed on the floor as they should have.

Now you can go right ahead, but there have been lawsuits based on what officials did to brake up fights. And then you go into a fight where the many people could be throwing thngs are going. Even in the Malice in the Palace, I did not see the officials leave the floor to get players out of the stands. Stop it already with that nonsense.

Peace

Fair enough point in your first paragraph. I just don't agree. There was opportunity when Smart hit the cameraman to have a presence close to him.

Comparing the Malice in the Palace to the OK State/Texas Tech game is ridiculous. Those were players going into the stands to fight. I already said the crews safety is paramount followed by the players. So of course, that's not our place. Smart didn't go into the stands to fight.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Toren

Fair enough point in your first paragraph. I just don't agree. There was opportunity when Smart hit the cameraman to have a presence close to him.

I am not grabbing any player. Because if I grab a player and they turn around and hit the person they think did something to them. Then what?

Originally Posted by Toren

Comparing the Malice in the Palace to the OK State/Texas Tech game is ridiculous. Those were players going into the stands to fight. I already said the crews safety is paramount followed by the players. So of course, that's not our place. Smart didn't go into the stands to fight.

What the hell would have happened if someone hit Smart, spit on Smart or threw something at Smart? He just did not have as willing a person and had teammates that were trying to not escalate the issue. But if the right group of people were involved, he might have started a bigger incident. Just look at the Texas-OSU situation where a teammate not involved in thrown a punch in the 2002 situation. So you say he did not go to fight, but he put his hands on a person in those stands. If that is trying to fight, not sure what he was doing?

Peace