adding name to book

[mdray]

During halftime, scorer informs official that A6 played in the first half, but his name is not in the book. Official realizes scorer is correct and instructs scorer to add the name and begins the second half with a T on team A. Is the official correct?

Can an official direct that the name be added to the book in this situation?
If A6 had not scored or committed a foul during the first half, does that alter how the official should handle this?

The infraction, that must be penalized when it occurs and prior to the ball becoming live, is the act of adding the name to the book. If the coach says A6 will not play the rest of the game, does his name have to be added to the book?
(I seem to remember an old case play related to this, but haven't been able to find it)

[Adam]

Too late to force the addition. Inform the coach, and the scorer, that if A6 plays again, the book will need to be updated and the appropriate T will be called. Remind the scorer not to update the book until you are informed.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mdray

(I seem to remember an old case play related to this, but haven't been able to find it)

3.2.2C(b) in last year's book (what I have handy)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

3.2.2C(b) in last year's book (what I have handy)

3.2.2 SITUATION C: Team A substitute No. 25 reports to the table for the first
time with approximately one minute remaining in the second quarter and is beckoned
onto the court. In (a), the ball is put in play by a throw-in from A1 to A2.
The horn sounds and the scorer informs the officials that No. 25 is not listed in
the scorebook. In (b), No. 25 plays the remainder of the second quarter. During
halftime intermission, the official scorer realizes No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook
and informs the officials when they return to the court before the start of
the third quarter. RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a
player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number
must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A.
In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. If No. 25
attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will
be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A. (3-2-2b; 10-
1-2b)

Remember, during intermissions, all team members are bench personnel.

[BillyMac]

Many administrative infractions can involve the scorebook and rosters. If a team adds a name to the team roster after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. When such a player legally enters the court, the player’s name and uniform number must be entered into the official scorebook. In order to penalize this infraction, the offending team member must be one of the five players currently in the game. In addition, if a team requires the official scorer to change a team member or player’s uniform number in the official scorebook (with exception), after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. If there is no request for change, or if a team member does not become a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty.

Three scorebook situations: adding a name to the team roster, changing a name or a number in the official scorebook, and/or having a player change a uniform number, are penalized with a team technical foul when they occur, after the ten minute time limit. These infractions occur when the scorer is advised to add to or change the official scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.

Remember, the technical foul isn't for the undocumented team member participating in the game, its for adding his name, and number, to the scorebook.

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Many administrative infractions can involve the scorebook and rosters. If a team adds a name to the team roster after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. When such a player legally enters the court, the player’s name and uniform number must be entered into the official scorebook. In order to penalize this infraction, the offending team member must be one of the five players currently in the game. In addition, if a team requires the official scorer to change a team member or player’s uniform number in the official scorebook (with exception), after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. If there is no request for change, or if a team member does not become a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty.

Three scorebook situations: adding a name to the team roster, changing a name or a number in the official scorebook, and/or having a player change a uniform number, are penalized with a team technical foul when they occur, after the ten minute time limit. These infractions occur when the scorer is advised to add to or change the official scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.

Remember, the technical foul isn't for the undocumented team member participating in the game, its for adding his name, and number, to the scorebook.

So when A6, who is not in the book, checks in and we becon them on and the ball becomes live, they are now a legal player. Then when the table lets us know they are not in the book, but are on the floor playing, isn't it too late to penalize? (According to Case book play 10.1 maybe) We just instruct scorer to add their name to the book and play on. Is that not how it supposed to be interpreted???

[jritchie]

And also, if we would penalize this with an administrative technical foul for not having A6 in the book, if we had say player A7 check in with a wrong number, would we also T this one or because of the first administrative T already been given, it would count for all the changes that need to be made? I would think that the first T would count for any changes to be made in the book the rest of the game, or am I mis-interpreting that wrong?

[Rob1968]

This comes under 10-2, and lists 5 possible infractions. The Penalty states: "One foul only per team regardless of the number of infractions."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jritchie

So when A6, who is not in the book, checks in and we becon them on and the ball becomes live, they are now a legal player. Then when the table lets us know they are not in the book, but are on the floor playing, isn't it too late to penalize? (According to Case book play 10.1 maybe) We just instruct scorer to add their name to the book and play on. Is that not how it supposed to be interpreted???

No, that's not how it's supposed to be interpreted.

If they are playing, but not in the book, then it's a T to add them.

If they've been added, but you weren't informed until later, then it's too late to penalize.

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No, that's not how it's supposed to be interpreted.

If they are playing, but not in the book, then it's a T to add them.

If they've been added, but you weren't informed until later, then it's too late to penalize.

So when they check in and the scorer just adds them without saying anything to us and they play, then the scorer says something later it's too late, but if they let them come in and don't add them to the book then let us know when they receive a foul or points it's now a T? I just don't get that interp from Case book play 10.1.2

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I first of all would say that this scorekeeper isn't doing their job.Not when there are all sorts of options to prevent this-
A.Have the coach write in players
B.Pull #'s from previous game and ask coach to verify or make additions/subtractions.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jritchie

So when they check in and the scorer just adds them without saying anything to us and they play, then the scorer says something later it's too late, but if they let them come in and don't add them to the book then let us know when they receive a foul or points it's now a T? I just don't get that interp from Case book play 10.2

I assume you mean 10.1.2?

"The foul must be charged when it occurs" and "Once the ball has become live it is too late" seem pretty clear to me.

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I assume you mean 10.1.2?

"The foul must be charged when it occurs" and "Once the ball has become live it is too late" seem pretty clear to me.

So player checks in, not in book, no one says nothing, they play, couple minutes go by, scorer says not in book, TOO LATE RIGHT? That is what I thought was pretty clear.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jritchie

So player checks in, not in book, no one says nothing, they play, couple minutes go by, scorer says not in book, TOO LATE RIGHT? That is what I thought was pretty clear.

"IT" is "adding to the book", not "player enters game"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jritchie

So player checks in, not in book, no one says nothing, they play, couple minutes go by, scorer says not in book, TOO LATE RIGHT? That is what I thought was pretty clear.

What is the T for?

Hint: It's not for playing.