Backcourt ruling?

[BryanV21]

As soon as the ball is deflected by B1 and is heading towards the backcourt, we are supposed to signal a tipped ball. Right? And if that's the case, and we still call the BC violation, what was the point of the signal?

[Toren]

Who gives the ball backcourt status? A1 does.

Backcourt violation.

Don't we do this argument every year? Until the interpretation changes, I'm not ruling any differently.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Toren

Who gives the ball backcourt status? A1 does.

Backcourt violation.

Don't we do this argument every year? Until the interpretation changes, I'm not ruling any differently.

A1 giving the ball a backcourt status is not a violation.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by APG

A1 giving the ball a backcourt status is not a violation.

I don't recall saying Backcourt Status Violation.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Toren

I don't recall saying Backcourt Status Violation.

Forgive me if I read this wrong, but it sounded like you're justifying the interpretation when you asked and answered who give the ball a backcourt status.

Originally Posted by Toren

Who gives the ball backcourt status? A1 does.

Backcourt violation.

The violation has never been for A1 giving the ball a backcourt status...if that were true, then A1 simply throwing the ball into the backcourt would be a violation as soon as the ball hit in the backcourt.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by APG

Forgive me if I read this wrong, but it sounded like you're justifying the interpretation when you asked and answered who give the ball a backcourt status.

I was mostly playing word games.

I don't get paid enough to justify the interpretation.

But the interpretation is there and I don't see any reason to ignore it.


Incidentally, Art Hyland, John Adams and Peter Webb have all said the interpretation is correct.

[Welpe]

We've been discussing this for so long I don't remember but did this interpretation ever make it to the case book?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by APG

if that were true, then A1 simply throwing the ball into the backcourt would be a violation as soon as the ball hit in the backcourt.

Perhaps it should be! Wouldn't it all be a lot easier to rewrite the whole mess such that if the ball is in the frontcourt, and A causes it to touch the ground behind the halfcourt line, blow the whistle and throw in for B.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

As soon as the ball is deflected by B1 and is heading towards the backcourt, we are supposed to signal a tipped ball. Right?

I know IAABO is the bane of many's existence here, but we were told in a meeting just last month NOT to give this signal.

Perhaps this scenario is one of the reasons.

[APG]

The tipped signal should be given once the ball is deflected by the defense and the ball is in the backcourt.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by APG

The tipped signal should be given once the ball is deflected by the defense and the ball is in the backcourt.

If we waited until the ball was actually in the backcourt then the offense could very well be at a disadvantage, as they would have "held up" when going after the ball to avoid the violation. Which seems to contradict the reason for giving the signal in the first place.

However, I can't find anything that says when the signal should be given. I'm looking in the rule book and the official's manual.

EDIT: How about that? It's mentioned in the beginning of the book, under rule changes, that the signal chart "added a defensive tip to indicate that the official has ruled that the ball entered the backcourt as a result of contact with a defensive player". So, you're right APG. However, it still seems like the signal should be given sooner, so that the offense can try to get the ball right away instead of "holding up" to avoid a possible violation.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

If we waited until the ball was actually in the backcourt then the offense could very well be at a disadvantage, as they would have "held up" when going after the ball to avoid the violation. Which seems to contradict the reason for giving the signal in the first place.

However, I can't find anything that says when the signal should be given. I'm looking in the rule book and the official's manual.

I can't tell the offense if they can go into the backcourt until I'm sure that the ball was tipped and the defense was the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt...if you simply do it on the deflection, the offense could still be the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt...and then they're going to see you doing your signal...then going to be confused when you (hopefully ) call the violation.

In almost every backcourt type call, the ball is going to gain a backcourt status before the offense would do any type of holding up.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by APG

I can't tell the offense if they can go into the backcourt until I'm sure that the ball was tipped and the defense was the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt...if you simply do it on the deflection, the offense could still be the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt...and then they're going to see you doing your signal...then going to be confused when you (hopefully ) call the violation.

In almost every backcourt type call, the ball is going to gain a backcourt status before the offense would do any type of holding up.

I can see the offense running to the ball which is headed towards the backcourt, and slowing up because they know there's a good chance they will end up in the backcourt once they touch it. And while slowing up, the defense has a chance to get to the ball first... knowing that whether they touch it or not there will not be a violation on them.

I know this scenario may not be likely, and signalling sooner could cause confusion, but I'm just trying to see things from all angles.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I can see the offense running to the ball which is headed towards the backcourt, and slowing up because they know there's a good chance they will end up in the backcourt once they touch it. And while slowing up, the defense has a chance to get to the ball first... knowing that whether they touch it or not there will not be a violation on them.

Did you ever play competitive basketball? If so, how many times did you slow down when in pursuit of the ball because you were afraid of a backcourt violation? Especially when the defensive team is in pursuit as well, trying to get the ball and start a fast break. My guess would be none after 6th grade when your coach told you to get the ball and not worry about a backcourt violation. The reasoning behind this new mechanic is a load of crap. Players were not slowing down their pursuit of the ball before this mechanic and they are not waiting to see if we give this signal now, before they decide whether or not to pursue the ball.

Additionally, you are going to look like a real dumbass if you use this mechanic too early and it turns out that the ball does actually end up in the backcourt having last touched the offensive team and you then have to call a violation.