What you guys Think of this? (Video)

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Giving someone 4 FTs and possession sure makes it close, however.

That is, IMHO, a crap comment, Camron. He did not "give" them 4 free throws. To make a comment like that puts you in the same category as the fan who initially posted the video.

Argue whether or not it was an IF all day. But #3 in blue earned his T. To turn around and say that the official gave the other team free throws is just wrong.

For the record, I would not have had an IF on that play either. But if a partner did, so be it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

He did not "give" them 4 free throws.

Agree. The technical foul was earned. There shouldn't be any more discussion about the technical, or the free throws taken as a result of the technical.

Maybe the intentional foul was the wrong call. Maybe it was the correct call.

No official that I've worked with over the past thirty-three years would cheat to keep a streak alive. Such officials might exist, but I've never met one.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No official that I've worked with over the past thirty-three years would cheat to keep a streak alive. Such officials might exist, but I've never met one.

You think they would either (a) boast about it or (b) even say such a thing?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

You think they would either (a) boast about it or (b) even say such a thing?

Probably not, but there'd be a few. There'd also be a few where you'd suspect such a scruple gap.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

You think they would either (a) boast about it or (b) even say such a thing?

I doubt it, but I have never heard any of my partners ever mention, or even joke about, how good, or bad, it would be to end, or to continue, a winning streak with a call; or how good, or bad, it would be to cause a team to win, or to lose, with a call.

I've had partners that I've considered to have made bad calls, but I've never worked with anyone who made a series of bad calls in a game that favored one team, or the other. Also, I've never worked with a partner who made what I may have considered to be a bad call to end a close game.

I've never even heard rumors about officials cheating.

I've worked thousands of game, and I've never cared one way, or the other, who won those games. I trust that my partners have had similar attitudes.

But, maybe I'm looking at the world through rose colored glasses. I've been known to do that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is, IMHO, a crap comment, Camron. He did not "give" them 4 free throws. To make a comment like that puts you in the same category as the fan who initially posted the video.

Argue whether or not it was an IF all day. But #3 in blue earned his T. To turn around and say that the official gave the other team free throws is just wrong.

For the record, I would not have had an IF on that play either. But if a partner did, so be it.

The point is that the one bad call created the situation which led to the T. Without it, there would not have been a T. Yes, the player bears responsibility for his actions in triggering the T but the official is not free from fault. They both messed up. To say otherwise or to try to say the two calls have nothing to do with each other is just ignoring reality.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point is that the one bad call created the situation which led to the T. Without it, there would not have been a T. Yes, the player bears responsibility for his actions in triggering the T but the official is not free from fault. They both messed up. To say otherwise or to try to say the two calls have nothing to do with each other is just ignoring reality.

Nice try.

Bad/incorrect calls are made all the time. And the plain fact is that several officials on this forum agreed with the IF call. So we can't even all agree that this was a bad call.

That player is responsible for his actions. He earned that T.

You threw a fellow official under the bus, saying he "gave" them four free throws. Feeds right into the perception that some people have that we all cheat. Again, argue the correctness of a call, but don't say the official was cheating ( and yes, that is what you were saying).

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And the plain fact is that several officials on this forum agreed with the IF call. So we can't even all agree that this was a bad call.

By my count there are 18 different people participating in this thread. Also by my count only 2 (Freddy, bainsy) have agreed with the Intentional foul.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by AremRed

By my count there are 18 different people participating in this thread. Also by my count only 2 (Freddy, bainsy) have agreed with the Intentional foul.

Make that 19 ... It actually looked like there was an attempt to play the ball. I saw the left hand swipe at the ball a couple of times (got all arm/body, but never-the-less), and that contact certainly did not appear excessive.

In my opinion, this is an official who is "looking" for an excuse to call an intentional foul. I don't think officials should be looking to call intentional fouls (only exception would be elbow in motion making contact above the shoulders since a common foul is not an option).

Given how bad this call was (again, my opinion), I have no doubt that something was said that made the T and easy call.

[APG]

Just my opinion:

If there's an intentional foul here in this situation, especially when it's evident that the losing team is fouling on purpose, then the call has to be obvious. It has to be obvious enough that you don't have 19 (or whatever the count) officials saying it's a common foul to only 2-3 in favor for it.

Originally Posted by egj13

similiar to the 0.2 seconds left play, these men should be flogged in public and never allowed to work a HS game again

While I didn't necessarily agree with that sentiment in the previous thread, there's a huge difference between a questionable judgement and a flat out misapplication of the rules.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is, IMHO, a crap comment, Camron. He did not "give" them 4 free throws. To make a comment like that puts you in the same category as the fan who initially posted the video.

Argue whether or not it was an IF all day. But #3 in blue earned his T. To turn around and say that the official gave the other team free throws is just wrong.

For the record, I would not have had an IF on that play either. But if a partner did, so be it.

Not to mention that the player who committed the intentional then shoved a player about the same time #3 was earning his T.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not to mention that the player who committed the intentional then shoved a player about the same time #3 was earning his T.

Reminds me of a game (my first this year) BV level. In the final 90 seconds I had 2 T's on the visiting teams players. They were up by 2 points and each T the home team was in the bonus, so they got the opportunity for 3 FT's each time AND the ball.

The home team ended up winning by 3.

First T, kid that fouled out said "Open your eyes"

Second T, after I called a foul 80 feet away from the basket the kid that fouled yelled "No" and slammed the ball (granted he caught the ball so it didn't go over his head, but that didn't matter).

Right after that the same team's AC was close to a T, I just looked at the HC and told him "He's about to cost you 2 FT's and the ball".

Did I give that game away? Nope, each kid earned their T, and I would have the same outcome 100% of the time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Reminds me of a game (my first this year) BV level. In the final 90 seconds I had 2 T's on the visiting teams players. They were up by 2 points and each T the home team was in the bonus, so they got the opportunity for 3 FT's each time AND the ball.

The home team ended up winning by 3.

First T, kid that fouled out said "Open your eyes"

Second T, after I called a foul 80 feet away from the basket the kid that fouled yelled "No" and slammed the ball (granted he caught the ball so it didn't go over his head, but that didn't matter).

Right after that the same team's AC was close to a T, I just looked at the HC and told him "He's about to cost you 2 FT's and the ball".

Did I give that game away? Nope, each kid earned their T, and I would have the same outcome 100% of the time.

Why are you giving three FTs for a T?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Why are you giving three FTs for a T?

Sorry should have said 4. 2 potential for the 1 and 1 and 2 for the T.

[Rich1]

Count me in with those who have an intentional foul to go along with the T. By rule, if the player is not making a play on the ball it is an intentional foul. I see the defender grab the dribbler from behind with both hands almost in the fashion of a bear hug. I see no problem with how it was called and probably would have called it the same if I were there. Also note, that the opposing coach stood up immediately calling for the flagrant so others saw it that way when it happened as well (I know several of you will want to blast that statement with some comment about coaches dictating calls but I am ony including it to demonstrate that it was seen that way by him). And, any T that resulted is to be blamed on the player. It does not matter why he disagrees with the call or how bad a call may be a player should never comment or demonstrate in an unsporting manner.

Finally, for any of us to question the honesty and credibility of other officials is unprofessional and counter productive. I don't know one guy nor have I heard of one game from my area where an official cheated. As they like to say in grade school, when you point a finger at someone there are four pointing back at you.

I hope in the future some of you more regular posters can stop trying so hard to find fault with others and stick to discusing / debating rules and situations. I enjoy coming to the forum to learn from each of you but find it hard to wade through the constant negativity of some posters.