You Decide (Clip)

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by SWKS

If you believe PC then you believe LGP was obtained.

It is possible to have a PC foul without a defender ever having LGP. You know that, right?

[SWKS]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is possible to have a PC foul without a defender ever having LGP. You know that, right?

Yes I know that, just wondering what the confusion or tick question might be coming?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is possible to have a PC foul without a defender ever having LGP. You know that, right?

It's also possible to have a blocking foul when LGP had been established.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

It's also possible to have a blocking foul when LGP had been established.

Yes, but I'm in the camp that says it was never established in this play.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Adam

It's also possible to have a blocking foul when LGP had been established.

If the B1 has a LGP against A1 then a blocking foul by B1 against A1 cannot happen.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

It appears that some people equate LGP with being a defender being positioned on a straight line between an offensive player, who is control of the ball, and the offensive player's team's basket. There is no rule support for this requirement.

Let me describe several scenarios. In each scenario imagine a line running the length of the court connecting the both [Table Side (TS)and Opposite the Table (OT)] free throw lane lines.

But first a historical note: For as long as I have been a basketball official (1971) the definition of LGP was the same, word for word, for three (NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA) rules codes. Until the late 1990's NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA used the word "establish" in their definition of LGP when the NFHS changed the word "establish" to "obtain". This change did not change the definition of LGP. NFHS's decision's to make this change is a story for another time but a good friend and basketball official from Connecticut was the driving force for this change; unfortunately he was never able to get the NCAA Rules Committees to also make the change. None-the-less, I will use the word "obtain" and consider it interchangeable with the word "establish". In fact for me old habits die hard and I tend the use the word "establish" over the word "obtain".


Scenario #1:

A1 has control of the ball for a throw-in along the end line in Team A's backcourt and is standing out-of-bounds where the TS free throw lane line intersects the end line. A2 is in Team A's backcourt standing outside the OT free throw lane at the free throw line. A3 is standing in Team A's backcourt along the OT side line where the free throw line extended intersects the OT side line.


Scenario #2:

A1 has control of the ball for a throw-in along the end line in Team A's backcourt and is standing out-of-bounds where the TS free throw lane line intersects the end line. A1 then passes the ball to A2 who is in Team A's backcourt standing outside the OT free throw lane at the free throw line. A3 is standing in Team A's backcourt along the OT side line where there free throw line extended intersects the OT side line.


Scenario #3:

A1 has control of the ball for a throw-in along the end line in Team A's backcourt and is standing out-of-bounds where the TS free throw lane line intersects the end line. A1 passes the ball (and then starts to run toward Team A's front court along the TS free throw lane line extended) to A2 who is in Team A's backcourt standing outside the OT free throw lane at the free throw line; A2 then starts to dribble toward Team A's front court along the OT free throw lane line extended. A3 is standing in Team A's backcourt along the OT side line where there free throw line extended intersects the OT side line; as A2 starts to dribble A3 starts to run toward Team A's front court along the OT side line.


In all three Scenarios:

B1 is standing in Team A's front court at the division line where the TS free throw lane line extended intersects the division line; B1 is facing A1. B2 is standing in Team A's front court where the free throw line and the OT lane line intersect; B2 is facing A2. B3 is standing in Team A's front court where free throw line extended intersects the OT side line.

Question: Has B1, B2, or B3 obtained a LGP?


MTD, Sr.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

It appears that some people equate LGP with being a defender being positioned on a straight line between an offensive player, who is control of the ball, and the offensive player's team's basket. There is no rule support for this requirement....

No one has made that assertion.

The defender needs to be in the path the offensive player is moving. A1 could be dribbling away from her basket to the division line, then B1 would need to take a position between A1 and the division line. I don't think anyone has suggested B1 could not obtain LGP in this situation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No one has made that assertion.

The defender needs to be in the path the offensive player is moving. A1 could be dribbling away from her basket to the division line, then B1 would need to take a position between A1 and the division line. I don't think anyone has suggested B1 could not obtain LGP in this situation.

While that can also be considered LGP, I don't believe it is the only place to get LGP. Between the player and the basket is always going to be a position where LGP can be obtained regardless of the direction of movement.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No one has made that assertion.

The defender needs to be in the path the offensive player is moving. A1 could be dribbling away from her basket to the division line, then B1 would need to take a position between A1 and the division line. I don't think anyone has suggested B1 could not obtain LGP in this situation.

BadNews:

No where in the rules will you find confirmation of what you said (highlighted in red) in your post above. To take your position would mean that a dribbler could avoid a CGS by dribbling away from a defensive player even though the defensive player stays within six feet of the dribbler.

MTD, Sr.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BadNews:

No where in the rules will you find confirmation of what you said (highlighted in red) in your post above. To take your position would mean that a dribbler could avoid a CGS by dribbling away from a defensive player even though the defensive player stays within six feet of the dribbler.

MTD, Sr.

So if the A1 were dribbling from the endline towards the divison line while in the front court, and B1 was in front of A1, you wouldn't have a count?