The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 05:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 60
Free Throw Situation

A1 is at the line to shoot 2 free throws. He bounces it 3-4 times and loses it and it slowly rolls toward the side of the lane when B1 steps into the lane to get the ball. What do you have? Violation on A1 since he wasn't going to be able to retrieve the ball without violating anyway or a double violation since B1 stepped in?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 05:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 234
As soon as A1 violates the ball is dead. There can be no violation on B at that point.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 05:46pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,936
I am not so sure about that completely. Is it a violation just because A1 fumbles the ball? Or is it a violation because A1 is not going to likely have a successful FT attempt? And the reason I am thinking this is we only ignore lane-line violations and the one by A1 is not considered a lane line violation as they are not considered on the lane. If A1 had missed a the rim they would not be a lane-line violation. I think we would have a double violation, unless there is rules support that suggest the second A1 fumbles the ball into the lane (and cannot retrieve it without violating) is automatically a violation. I think there is a case play on this one.

9.1.1 says it is a violation for A1 when they muff the ball it is a violation, but it does not make clear when that violation actually takes place.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)

Last edited by JRutledge; Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 05:52pm.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 05:56pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am not so sure about that completely. Is it a violation just because A1 fumbles the ball? Or is it a violation because A1 is not going to likely have a successful FT attempt? And the reason I am thinking this is we only ignore lane-line violations and the one by A1 is not considered a lane line violation as they are not considered on the lane. If A1 had missed a the rim they would not be a lane-line violation. I think we would have a double violation, unless there is rules support that suggest the second A1 fumbles the ball into the lane (and cannot retrieve it without violating) is automatically a violation. I think there is a case play on this one.

9.1.1 says it is a violation for A1 when they muff the ball it is a violation, but it does not make clear when that violation actually takes place.

Peace
I'm just going with the violation on A. I'm not going to penalize B for being nice.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 05:58pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I'm just going with the violation on A. I'm not going to penalize B for being nice.
That is what it pretty much suggests. I guess I was thinking if the muff the ball and did not get completely away from the shooter. I have seen that happen and no one moved.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:01pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
That is what it pretty much suggests. I guess I was thinking if the muff the ball and did not get completely away from the shooter. I have seen that happen and no one moved.

Peace
If it's within the shooter's reach when B1 steps in to get the ball, I'm going with the violation on B1. Kill the play, start over with a delayed violation.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:03pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If it's within the shooter's reach when B1 steps in to get the ball, I'm going with the violation on B1. Kill the play, start over with a delayed violation.
That was kind of my thinking. But the casebook does not make that clear or suggest we can consider that fact.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montana
Posts: 53
I have always been advised when the ball is fumbled, to blow the whistle and re-administer the free throw. No violation until a player breaks the plane. I always like to prevent those if I can.
__________________
"Damn referees, I'll miss them less than anybody." - Abe Lemmons
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:16pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
That was kind of my thinking. But the casebook does not make that clear or suggest we can consider that fact.

Peace
I don't need a case book for everything.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.

Last edited by Adam; Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 10:45pm. Reason: added the verb
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:21pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I don't a case book for everything.
If you mean "use' then I agree. But it is always good to know what is stated because some will and can use the information against you later.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 06:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 234
If the player fumbles the "toss" from the ref initially then you would readminister with no viloations. But if he has the ball and then loses it (as stated in the post) then the shooter has violated, the ball is dead, and we move to next shot.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:04pm
Never Stop Learning
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 515
We must look at weather this is a fumble or a muff. A fumble happens when a player has control and loses the ball. A muff was never under player control. In this case the player fumbled the ball and hence violated. Move on to the next shot as A1 has violated. (9.1.1)

Last edited by Ed Maeder; Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 07:50pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:33pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
Car Fifty-Four, Where Are You ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich1 View Post
If the player fumbles the "toss" from the ref initially then you would readminister with no violations. But if he has the ball and then loses it (as stated in the post) then the shooter has violated, the ball is dead, and we move to next shot.
This sounds like a casebook play, or a midyear interpretation, from a few years ago. Where's Nevaderef when you need him?

In fact, where is Nevaderef?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:45pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
If you mean "use' then I agree. But it is always good to know what is stated because some will and can use the information against you later.

Peace
I meant "need" (fixed).
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 16,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoDot View Post
I have always been advised when the ball is fumbled, to blow the whistle and re-administer the free throw. No violation until a player breaks the plane. I always like to prevent those if I can.
That was the philosophy until the case play was added maybe 8 years ago.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need some help on a free throw situation. NURef Basketball 35 Sat Jul 05, 2008 01:10pm
Free throw situation dkmz17 Basketball 3 Fri Feb 09, 2007 09:57am
Free Throw Situation walter Basketball 3 Sat Nov 25, 2006 07:45pm
Free Throw Situation Ridgeben Basketball 16 Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:23pm
Free throw situation Ron Pilo Basketball 11 Thu Jan 25, 2001 01:55pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:16am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1