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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 09:14am
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A1 is at the line for 2 free throws. Just before his release of his first free throw, A2 and B2 push each other at the same time. Do you clear the lane and allow A1 to shoot his shots, then use alternating possesion for the double foul?
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 09:39am
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Without my spending time with my rulesbook yet, (hey at least I check the forum daily) I'd say clear the lane for the foul shots and then go to the arrow to inbound the ball.
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 10:06am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ridgeben
A1 is at the line for 2 free throws. Just before his release of his first free throw, A2 and B2 push each other at the same time. Do you clear the lane and allow A1 to shoot his shots, then use alternating possesion for the double foul?
Since there's no possibility of the ball remaining live after the second FT by A1, clear the lane.

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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 10:07am
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So you view it as a double foul. Clear the lane and go to the arrow after the second free throw?
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 11:36am
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If it's before the ball is live, I'd have to go with a double T (again without looking). If I'm wrong, please set me straight.
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 11:46am
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Originally posted by Junker
If it's before the ball is live, I'd have to go with a double T (again without looking). If I'm wrong, please set me straight.
If it's before the ball is live, ignore it unless it's intentional or flagrant.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ridgeben
So you view it as a double foul. Clear the lane and go to the arrow after the second free throw?
I assumed that the "push" met the requirements for a foul -- otherwise it would just be ignored. IF it's a foul, and it's by oponents against each other at approximately the same time, well, yes, that's the definition of a double foul.



[Edited by bob jenkins on Oct 28th, 2003 at 10:49 AM]
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 12:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
If it's before the ball is live, I'd have to go with a double T (again without looking). If I'm wrong, please set me straight.
If it's before the ball is live, ignore it unless it's intentional or flagrant.
If it's "just before the release", then the ball is live. It becomes live when it is available to the shooter. So, call a double foul, clear the lane, A1 shoots 2, go with the arrow, ball inbounded at the endline.
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 12:22pm
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Thanks Rainmaker. I haven't had my meetings yet so I haven't started to study the books.
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 09:09pm
oc oc is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
If it's before the ball is live, I'd have to go with a double T (again without looking). If I'm wrong, please set me straight.
If it's before the ball is live, ignore it unless it's intentional or flagrant.
If it's "just before the release", then the ball is live. It becomes live when it is available to the shooter. So, call a double foul, clear the lane, A1 shoots 2, go with the arrow, ball inbounded at the endline.
You said A1 shoots 2. Is this because the double foul occurred while the ball is still in the shooters hand so the first shot needs to be reshot? Or did you mean shoot the second shot? Is the first cancelled?

Change the scenario to a normal shot. Double foul while A1 is in the act of shooting but the ball has not left the hand yet. If the shot was good do the fouls cancel the shot? I know this is probably in the case book but I can't find last years and I dont have new ones yet.
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2003, 09:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by oc
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
[B]If it's "just before the release", then the ball is live. It becomes live when it is available to the shooter. So, call a double foul, clear the lane, A1 shoots 2, go with the arrow, ball inbounded at the endline.
You said A1 shoots 2. Is this because the double foul occurred while the ball is still in the shooters hand so the first shot needs to be reshot? Or did you mean shoot the second shot? Is the first cancelled?
Shoot two because the first shot had not left the hand.

Quote:
Originally posted by oc
Change the scenario to a normal shot. Double foul while A1 is in the act of shooting but the ball has not left the hand yet. If the shot was good do the fouls cancel the shot? I know this is probably in the case book but I can't find last years and I dont have new ones yet.
If the ball had not yet left the hand, it becomes dead when the foul is committed and shot doesn't count.
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2003, 04:49pm
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What if the shooter is in the ACT of shooting? Shot should still count then right?
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2003, 05:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ace
What if the shooter is in the ACT of shooting? Shot should still count then right?
The act of shooting thing only applies to a foul on the shooter herself. Any other situation, the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs. So if she hasn't released the ball yet, when the foul occurs, the ball is dead, and if she goes ahead anyway, it doesn't count. She does get that first shot again though.
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2003, 06:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by ace
What if the shooter is in the ACT of shooting? Shot should still count then right?
The act of shooting thing only applies to a foul on the shooter herself. Any other situation, the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs.
Any other situation except the defense committing the only foul, personal or technical, while the FT shooter is in the act of shooting, but the FT isn't in the air yet. Casebook plays 6.7COMMENT and 6.7SitC(last year's book).

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 29th, 2003 at 05:26 PM]
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2003, 06:50pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by ace
What if the shooter is in the ACT of shooting? Shot should still count then right?
The act of shooting thing only applies to a foul on the shooter herself. Any other situation, the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs.
Any other situation except the defense committing the only foul, personal or technical, while the FT shooter is in the act of shooting, but the FT isn't in the air yet. Casebook plays 6.7COMMENT and 6.7SitC(last year's book).

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 29th, 2003 at 05:26 PM]
Darn, someday, I'm gonna remember all the details. Hope it's during a game!
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Old Thu Oct 30, 2003, 06:43am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by ace
What if the shooter is in the ACT of shooting? Shot should still count then right?
The act of shooting thing only applies to a foul on the shooter herself. Any other situation, the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs.
Any other situation except the defense committing the only foul, personal or technical, while the FT shooter is in the act of shooting, but the FT isn't in the air yet. Casebook plays 6.7COMMENT and 6.7SitC(last year's book).

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 29th, 2003 at 05:26 PM]
Strangely, I was just looking at this stuff last night.
The way I understand it for A1 having started the free-throwing motion, but not yet released the ball is:
1. foul by B1 = continuous motion applies and shot counts if successful, no substitute throw if unsuccessful, unless the official rules the foul to be disconcerting
2. foul by A2 = ball dead immediately, shot does not count if released and successful, substitute throw awarded with lane cleared, then penalty for A1's foul enforced.
3. inadvertent whistle for violation by defense = ball dead immediately, shot does not count if released and successful, substitute throw awarded.
4. double foul by A2 and B2 = ball dead immediately, shot does not count if released and successful, substitute throw awarded with lane cleared, then AP. Note: if B has the arrow and the double foul was near the endline, Team B may run the endline on the ensuing AP throw-in.

Like JR said, the casebook plays labelled 6.7.X are great on all this.
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