Throw in issues HS Rules

[geoff.mayfield]

After a made bucket the inbounding team (A) can clearly pass the ball along the end line to alternate teammates to complete the throw in. A1 passes along the end line to A2 who completes the throw in to A3. But....

(1) A2 completely misses the pass and the ball remains behind the endline and rolls into the corner of the gym. Can team A call timeout (in the absence of player control by any A team mates) during the "loose ball" that occurs after the errant pass in order to avoid a 5 second violation.

(2) A1's pass is poorly thrown and the ball travels over the endline (into the playing area) and over the sideline, out of bounds into the stands. The ball is untouched until it lands in stands behind the side line.

(3) After team B's bucket, A1 (the inbounder) takes the ball and jogs towards the sideline (while out of bounds behind the endline). As he jogs, he "passes" the ball to the wall of the gym (behind the endline, imagine small gym confines--ball never enter playing area prior to hitting the wall) causing the ball to bounce of of the wall: (A) and returning to A1 whereby A1 completes the throw in to A2; or (2) whereby the ball enters the playing area and is secured by A2. Violation?

[bob jenkins]

1) Is the ball still at A's disposal? That will let you answer this.

2) A ball goes OOB and the ruling is ....?

3) (2) is covered in a case. (A) is not covered but I'd treat it the same way. If it was accidental, I'd treat is as in your first play.

[HokiePaul]

1) I grant the time out. I would consider the ball still at A's disposal.
(8-3-a: The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team)

2) Violation. Spot throw in from the endline for B.

3a) I'm going with no violation (may change my mind once I hear what others have). I'm treating the wall like the floor out of bounds and considering this like a dribble - and there is no restriction on dribbling during a throw in.

3b) I'm calling a Violation (and I'm looking through the rule book now to see if I can figure out why).

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

3b) I'm calling a Violation (and I'm looking through the rule book now to see if I can figure out why).

Is it a habit of yours to call things a certain way and then worry about the rules backing later? This is especially silly since you are not on a court being asked to make the call in real time. Instead you have the opportunity to find the correct answer first and then post.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Is it a habit of yours to call things a certain way and then worry about the rules backing later? This is especially silly since you are not on a court being asked to make the call in real time. Instead you have the opportunity to find the correct answer first and then post.

No ... I know it is a violation by rule, so I'm calling it if I see it in a game. I just don't have the rule citation memorized. It is something like the ball must be released directly onto the court - just can't find it at the moment.

Edit:
My reason for a violation in 3b is Rule 9-2-2: The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out of bounds ... A pass off the wall onto the court does not meet this provision so I call a violation when touched. If no one touches it, I call a violation when it goes out of bounds untouched.

[johnny d]

Check in rule 9, there might be some help for you there.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

No ... I know it is a violation by rule, so I'm calling it if I see it in a game. I just don't have the rule citation memorized. It is something like the ball must be released directly onto the court - just can't find it at the moment.

Try 9-2-2, and Case Book 9.2.2 A (a) and (b), which have to do with (The ball shall be passed directly into the court from out-of-bounds...).

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Try 9-2-2, and Case Book 9.2.2 A (a) and (b), which have to do with (The ball shall be passed directly into the court from out-of-bounds...).

Thanks. And the case 9.2.2 D seems to me to support the ruling that the actions in the OP 3a are legal. "Ruling: A player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in".

It specifically mentions "out-of-bounds area" instead of "floor" so I'm keeping my 5 second count as the player bounces the ball off of the wall to themselves out of bounds.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Thanks. And the case 9.2.2 D seems to me to support the ruling that the actions in the OP 3a are legal. "Ruling: A player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in".

It specifically mentions "out-of-bounds area" instead of "floor" so I'm keeping my 5 second count as the player bounces the ball off of the wall to themselves out of bounds.

While it does say area, I think it would be pretty safe to assume they really meant area of the floor.

That said, I'm also OK with being liberal with it and ruling it to not be a violation. In the spirit of this rule, it doesn't really match the violations on the throwin going directly OOB because the thrower was just bouncing it to himself/herself (like dribble but not technically a dribble). They gain absolutely nothing by doing so...and probably just waste time that could have been used for the throwin.

As for situation #1, I've got a violation as soon as it passed the plane of the sideline. The throwin can only be made along the endline, not the endline extended, and the ball is no longer along the endline but is in an OOB area where no thowin can be made.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

It specifically mentions "out-of-bounds area" instead of "floor" so I'm keeping my 5 second count as the player bounces the ball off of the wall to themselves out of bounds.

Would you also allow them to bounce it off the back of the backboard?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Altor

Would you also allow them to bounce it off the back of the backboard?

Sure. Once. Then the ball would go to the other team due to the violation.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Altor

Would you also allow them to bounce it off the back of the backboard?

Not really a good comparison to the play in question.

I see it more like the thrower backing up and touching the wall behind them. Whether the player touches the wall or the ball touches the wall in the out of bounds area, there is no depth restriction on the throw in so I'm not seeing a rule being violated in this specific instance.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As for situation #1, I've got a violation as soon as it passed the plane of the sideline. The throwin can only be made along the endline, not the endline extended, and the ball is no longer along the endline but is in an OOB area where no thowin can be made.

Interesting thought -- although technically the throwin hasn't been "made" yet and it still could be made along the endline if recovered quickly enough.

Would anyone else call a violation immediately if a player moved endline "extended" or would the call be made only if the ball was released on a throwin from this position. Since there is no line, it would have to be a judgement call as to whether or not the thrower crossed the sideline plane. Also, depending on where you positioned (and whether it is 2 or 3 man), this sideline call might be your partners line/call.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Altor

Would you also allow them to bounce it off the back of the backboard?

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Not really a good comparison to the play in question.

Initially I thought, "What is Hokie talking about, I think that's a great comparison," but as I think about it, you're right, the backboard is past the throw in plane. Which makes me think of this, what if teammates out of bound along the end line pass the ball, and it hits the basket support on the out of bounds side of the line? Same as hititng the wall behind the basket?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by frezer11

what if teammates out of bounds along the end line pass the ball, and it hits the basket support on the out of bounds side of the line? Same as hititng the wall behind the basket?

NFHS 7-1-2a...The ball is out of bounds when it touches...:

3. The supports or back of the backboard.
4. The ceiling, overhead equipment or supports

So it would appear no violation if it's following made/awarded FG or FT. Of course you’ll probably end up with a five-second violation since the ball will most likely ricochet somewhere and the players won’t be able to recover it in time.