Travesty or Travel...

[just another ref]

Regardless of what has been "agreed to", this still has potential for problems in a competitive game.

"I didn't know you were gonna let him do that much!!"

The integrity of the game itself is still our first priority. I am all for cutting a player some slack, whether for a handicap or simply lack of talent, but not at the expense of the outcome of the game.

[BryanV21]

I think a lot of officials forget that the game is about the kids.

I'm not on the court to make sure people respect the game of basketball, I'm there to make sure the kids are able to learn and have fun in a safe environment. I'd hope people respect the game at the same time, but that's more of a side effect to what I do, not the reason I do it.

I don't do what I do for the integrity of the game. I do it for those kids, because a while ago somebody did the same for me. And knowing how much fun I had, knowing how much I learned, I want to help another generation of kids feel the same way.

While I don't like having to ignore certain things, I understand that in order to do what's right sometimes I have to. So if a coach wants to say "to hell with winning", and give a child with Downs Syndrome his moment, then who am I to stand in his way?

But even if I do accept the whole "protect the integrity of the game" thing, then please explain to me how allowing that kid with Downs Syndrome to get away with traveling hurts the integrity of the game. Did fans in that game start looking down on basketball? Did they decide to switch their kids to wrestling or another winter sport?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

But even if I do accept the whole "protect the integrity of the game" thing, then please explain to me how allowing that kid with Downs Syndrome to get away with traveling hurts the integrity of the game.

98% of the time it doesn't. What I'm saying is if the outcome of the game is in doubt and this player is on the court, you may be asked to make a decision. Will you call a travel on him just like anybody else, or will you allow him to climb a ladder and score the winning basket. Hopefully somewhere in between, but be aware of the potential to have to draw a line.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by just another ref

98% of the time it doesn't. What I'm saying is if the outcome of the game is in doubt and this player is on the court, you may be asked to make a decision. Will you call a travel on him just like anybody else, or will you allow him to climb a ladder and score the winning basket. Hopefully somewhere in between, but be aware of the potential to have to draw a line.

I'm looking at the situation described in the OP.

If you want to change the situation, then fine. The way I do things may change, but the bottom line remains the same... what's best for those kids? That may be calling the travel, but it also may be ignoring it and smiling along with the coach, his players, and hopefully everybody else in the gym.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I think a lot of officials forget that the game is about the kids.

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our job as officials are to be the "Arbiter of the game" not to make every kid feel good about themselves by ignoring basic rules or procedures.

Peace

I'm all for this, but for me the focus is that it's a game. It's not war, it's medical research, it's not even politics. It's a game.

Personally, I'm fine with allowing this kid some leeway; although I would have likely called the travel about the same time Dan did. There are limits, after all. I don't get those who think allowing a disabled kid a bit of playing time is somehow going to take away from our arbiterness or something.

[MD Longhorn]

I probably would have drawn the line about the same as Dan did. I might have tried to get the coach's eye contact after the 2nd blatant ignored travel and try to indicate we were getting near the line though - maybe he would have called a TO.

[rpirtle]

I call a multitude of different levels of ball from "little dribblers" (4th thru 6th grades) to college (NCAA-W Div II & III)...up to semi-professional (ABA). Among the most gratifying and rewarding events I work are the Area & Regional Championships for Special Olympics (Texas).

In these tournaments teams are classified by their skill level...which also could include any physical or mental impairment of individual players. Some divisions mix "Unified" players (referred to by some as "normal"...whatever that is) with the special needs players. As you might guess officials in this type of environment really need the guidance of coaches regarding how the game should be officiated.

I've used my experiences in the above games to develop a method of approaching any game or tournament where the players might not be skilled...or where the skill level of two opponents is not the same. I approach both coaches prior to the game. We go over stuff like: 1.) Specific skills they've been working on during the season (that they want called); 2.) Any special rules they may use (ie; bonus on 10th foul, shoot only 1 FT; etc.).

It works for me.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

I approach both coaches prior to the game.

I am sincere when I say it is good to know someone with your experiences in these matters are like minded.

...and since you are an "expert", let me run a few more "procedures" by you for handling the OP.

1) Special Player starts running around with the ball...after a time when it starts to feel uncomfortable...look hard for some kind of foul/violation i.e. 3-seconds...."TWEET" other team gets the ball, Special player is not at "fault".

2) "TWEET"..."grant" a TO request to Coach A. Explain in your pre-game meeting that if the traveling gets too bad..."you are going to want a TO."

3) "TWEET"...inadvertant whistle...Team A gets ball for TI and maybe a new "ball handler".

4) He!! with it...just nail the kid with the travel like you would any other 8th grade B player.

5) Do it like "Dan" did it.

(I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these "ideas"...they were just thrown out there.)

It's interesting...this OP has actually caused a lot of discussion around here...even to the point that some of the football officials have heard about it and talked about it during post-game refreshments.

Again, I like the idea of talking to BOTH Coaches BEFORE the game and get these things ironed out.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for this, but for me the focus is that it's a game. It's not war, it's medical research, it's not even politics. It's a game.

Personally, I'm fine with allowing this kid some leeway; although I would have likely called the travel about the same time Dan did. There are limits, after all. I don't get those who think allowing a disabled kid a bit of playing time is somehow going to take away from our arbiterness or something.

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

The thing is, it is "for the kids." For the record, I hate the tripe as much as you, but only because of how it's typically used; not because I think it's inaccurate.

But, it's not "for" any specific kid (the special needs kid or any of the others). It's not for any team. It's for all the kids. So any accommodations made should be made with that in mind.

Frankly, I think there's a valuable lesson in it for all the kids in Dan's OP. But in a hypothetical where B coach disagrees and decides to have his kids take full advantage of the special needs player, well, that's up to him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

The thing is, it is "for the kids." For the record, I hate the tripe as much as you, but only because of how it's typically used; not because I think it's inaccurate.

But, it's not "for" any specific kid (the special needs kid or any of the others). It's not for any team. It's for all the kids. So any accommodations made should be made with that in mind.

Frankly, I think there's a valuable lesson in it for all the kids in Dan's OP. But in a hypothetical where B coach disagrees and decides to have his kids take full advantage of the special needs player, well, that's up to him.

And that is fine. When you and others work this kind of game you have every right to make that decision. I am honestly not going to care either way, I just will not be doing such a thing. And the younger the kids I am not going to be ultra technical on traveling and all pivot foot movements, but I am not going to just ignore a rule just for one kid as was suggested or asked to the officials in this situation. And I will sleep well at night doing just that.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... If this was an NCAA game...

Peace

IF my sister had different genitals...

she'd be my brother.


sorry Rut...couldn't resist.

(Screeners: I cleaned it up a bit)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

IF my sister had different genitals...

she'd be my brother.


sorry Rut...couldn't resist.

(Screeners: I cleaned it up a bit)

I guess this made you laugh (not sure why). But I was not the one who invoked the NBA or other levels into this discussion. I just know what I am going to do and not do.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is what you want to do I am all fine with that fact. But this has nothing to do with, "It is for the kids" crap I hear people say all the time. The game has rules for a reason, not because we decide one kid might have issues. And all a coach is doing by asking us to ignore a rule is to open up a can of worms we might not be ready to deal with the consequences. I just hate people thinking that the game is for the kids we are to ignore our main responsibility and that is to fairly enforce the rules. And a coach on the other side might not want a rule ignored whether we like it or not. If this was an NCAA game, ain't nobody talking about it is for the kids crap.

Peace

Honestly, Jeff - this is really out of place. On one hand (in one post), you say you don't have to worry about NBA or 3rd grade games, and on the other (in the very next post), you chide the way people who DO work those games handle such games. You can't tell us your opinion doesn't matter because you don't have to walk in these shoes, and then insist on an opinion that those who are walking in those shoes should do things differently.