Originally Posted by potato (Post 908550)

Isn't there a rule that states a player cannot be the 1st to touch his own airball even if it is a shooting attempt? Was it NBA?

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 908571)

... intent ... A1 dropped the ball because he knew he couldn't return to the floor with it.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 908571)

Okay, we made this into a word game, which was not beneficial to the discussion. I think this is all about intent at the time of the release, just as it is when the player is fouled. A1 dropped the ball because he knew he couldn't return to the floor with it. It wasn't a try. It wasn't a fumble. And unless there is a teammate right next to him to pick it up, I can't call it a pass. By default, it is a dribble.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 908512)

You argue like this is political debate... read words, interpret them the way you want, then argue with that interpretation even if you know your interpretation is not what the other person meant.

That sort of argument is a waste of everyone's time and effort. This is not politics, this is not a debate. It's an officiating discussion board, where we're all trying to get better.
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I did not say dropping the ball and catching it is not a dribble. I said "this" - the situation we're talking about (well, the situation we WERE talking about until you decided to insert a completely different scenario in its place and apply my statement to it). In the situation we're talking about, dropping the ball and not picking it up is not a dribble. You tried to imply that it was because Gravity is a Force, and you saw the word force in the rule. (Frankly ... another example of what you did to my post)

If you're simply here to out-debate us or win an argument, I'm not interested. If you're interested in discussing what rules apply here, please do so.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 908694)

Then apply the rules as they are written, not as you invent new words to put in so it will fit what you want it to be. Quit looking for ways to weasel out of blowing the whistle.

A dribble starts when it leaves the hands. There is no part of the definition that suggests otherwise. A pass also starts when it leaves the hands. The difference is only in the judgement in whether it is going to the floor or to another player.

My example was merely offered to expose the fallacy in the points being made about the play in question.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 908571)

Okay, we made this into a word game, which was not beneficial to the discussion. I think this is all about intent at the time of the release, just as it is when the player is fouled. A1 dropped the ball because he knew he couldn't return to the floor with it. It wasn't a try. It wasn't a fumble. And unless there is a teammate right next to him to pick it up, I can't call it a pass. By default, it is a dribble.

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 908697)

That's not what it says. It says it starts when it's thrown or pushed to the floor. Dropping is neither throwing nor pushing. If we're going to start parsing definitions, I think we need to start there.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 908705)

By definition, though, it's not. At this moment in time, it's none of the above. Until we see who touches it next, it's status is not yet known, and thus this is not yet a violation.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 908694)

The difference is only in the judgement in whether it is going to the floor or to another player.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 908717)

A bounce pass does both.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 908718)

But in a different direction. I've never seen a bounce pass that goes straight down or even nearly straight down.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 908709)

What exactly is pushing then? Exactly how much force is required for it to be a push.


When the ball leaves a players hands under their control, it is only one of three things...a try, a pass, or a dribble and it is such the moment it leaves their hands. The differences is entirely in intent and judging which is what we get paid for. Some will bring up the point about not judging intent but that doesn't really work because you have to judge intent when it comes to a try when determining if it is a shooting foul or whether they payer can retrieve an air ball. If you can determine that, it really isn't a stretch to expect an official to be able to tell if it is a dribble or a pass based on how it is released.

If it is remotely to another player, I'm OK with calling it a pass. But when it is clearly not to another player when it leaves the hands, and the player only put the ball on the floor with no teammate anywhere near to avoid getting it blocked, that defender that forced the action deserves violation call.

Originally Posted by potato (Post 908752)

If it was an alleyoop or rebound he probably can do start a dribble.