What would you do?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have worked travel ball with players this young and they do amazing things.

I have no idea what travel basketball is like in your area, but around these parts, travel basketball is a really big deal, with dozens, and dozens, of kids from the entire town trying out for about a dozen spots. The kids that make the team end up being the crème-de-la-crème, and are very, very talented.

Seventh graders on a Catholic middle school "junior varsity" team, are those that did not make the "varsity" team, and are certainly not the crème-de-la-crème, and again, these are the deer in the headlights kids. This is why I had a slight problem with Adam's, "7th grade is 7th grade". They all aren't the same. If the seventh graders on our town travel team were to play the local Catholic middle school "junior varsity" team of seventh graders (remember the best seventh graders moved up to the "varsity"), the score would end up being about 112 to 6 (Believe me, I know, I've worked scrimmages). It may not be apples to oranges, but it's Delicious apples to Macintosh apples.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I have no idea what travel basketball is like in your area, but around these parts, travel basketball is a really big deal, with dozens, and dozens, of kids from the entire town trying out for about a dozen spots. The kids that make the team end up being the crème-de-la-crème, and are very, very talented.

Seventh graders on a Catholic middle school "junior varsity" team, are those that did not make the "varsity" team, and are certainly not the crème-de-la-crème, and again, these are the deer in the headlights kids. This is why I had a slight problem with Adam's, "7th grade is 7th grade". They all aren't the same. If the seventh graders on our town travel team were to play the local Catholic middle school "junior varsity" team of seventh graders (remember the best seventh graders moved up to the "varsity"), the score would end up being about 112 to 6 (Believe me, I know, I've worked scrimmages). It may not be apples to oranges, but it's Delicious apples to Macintosh apples.

Yep, some 7th graders are better than others. I never said otherwise. I only said whether you call their school a junior high or a middle school is completely irrelevant. What makes a difference is how much basketball they've played up to that point.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

What makes a difference is how much basketball they've played up to that point.

Bingo. Give the man a cigar. Keep in mind that sometimes the degree of experience is not completely controlled by the individual, but rather, the "system" that the individual participates in. Unlike the old adage, sometimes opportunity is persistent, and knocks several times, and sometimes it doesn't knock at all, it just passes right by your house.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I have no idea what travel basketball is like in your area, but around these parts, travel basketball is a really big deal, with dozens, and dozens, of kids from the entire town trying out for about a dozen spots. The kids that make the team end up being the crème-de-la-crème, and are very, very talented.

Everyone has a travel team. And at that age just about anyone that wants to play can find a team somewhere.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Seventh graders on a Catholic middle school "junior varsity" team, are those that did not make the "varsity" team, and are certainly not the crème-de-la-crème, and again, these are the deer in the headlights kids. This is why I had a slight problem with Adam's, "7th grade is 7th grade". They all aren't the same. If the seventh graders on our town travel team were to play the local Catholic middle school "junior varsity" team of seventh graders (remember the best seventh graders moved up to the "varsity"), the score would end up being about 112 to 6 (Believe me, I know, I've worked scrimmages). It may not be apples to oranges, but it's Delicious apples to Macintosh apples.

Billy like anything in life, there are always different levels. Not all high school players are at the same level of competence and I do not think many people decide to call the game that drastically different.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Everyone has a travel team. And at that age just about anyone that wants to play can find a team somewhere.

Not true here in my hometown of 40,000 people. We have one travel team for each grade, six, seven, and eight. If a player doesn't make that team, then he's relegated to playing recreation basketball, where the competition is not as good as the travel program, as is the strength of schedule, the amount of practice time, and the quality of coaching.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not all high school players are at the same level of competence and I do not think many people decide to call the game that drastically different.

You are absolutely correct. Most of us don't.

But once you venture down to officiate games between pre-teen gym rats, then you can, or can't, adjust to the talent, and experience, of that team, league, or individual, as well as the expectations of that league. I've been working this Catholic middle school "junior varsity" league for over twenty-five years, and I know exactly what's expected of me. If I call a do-over in the original post, especially if it's early in the season, early in the game, and with a confused player, I'm 100% positive that my assigner, all my partners, the league president, both coaches, the principal, and all the fans wouldn't blink an eye. In fact, I'm certain that my assigner, and the league president, are pleased with the job that I do, as I am usually selected to officiate league playoffs, and have worked state, and New England, tournaments at this level.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are always different levels.

Agree. And some of us adjust, or are allowed, or even encouraged, to adjust, and some of us don't adjust, or are not allowed to adjust, or are discouraged from adjusting. It all depends on the individual official, as well as the expectations of the assigner, and the league.

[JRutledge]

All I am saying is what rule we are talking about is not hard for the players to understand and if called the sky is not going to fall for these kids. This is not like trying to determine a kid travels because he can barely get his arms around the basketball. I am all about adjusting to the level, but this rule we are talking about does not need that much adjustment IMO.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... rule we are talking about is not hard for the players to understand ... this rule we are talking about does not need that much adjustment.

JRutledge: Several Forum members tend to disagree with you (and several agree with you). Let's agree to disagree, and go back to our corners and handle it the way our assigners wants it done.

Originally Posted by AremRed

... blow the whistle and point to the player to properly inbound the ball ... depending on how generous and/or teachable you are feeling.

Originally Posted by Adam

7th grade? I'd probably kill the play and bring them back, depending on the talent level on the court.

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

This is what my partner & I did in our 7th grade game last week.

Originally Posted by OKREF

Elementary, and Junior High, I am stopping play and bringing them back for a proper throw in, once, and explaining the correct thing to do. After that I am calling a violation. All other levels no warning, it's a violation.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Falls into the same category as getting them lined up for free throws properly...certainly not by the book, but I'm looking to help teach the game at this level.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think you have to read the game to know. Some times they should know better, sometimes they're barely able to hold the ball. At those levels, you have to call the game to a level that they specific players in the game are ready for.

Originally Posted by KevinP

It's 7th grade basketball. Blow the whistle as soon as they grab ball and tell the player what to do ... we are not only enforcing the rules but coaching a little bit in the younger grades. I've never had an opposing coach get upset for helping out on a play like that.

Originally Posted by Adam

... whether I agree with the rest of your position (I do).

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree, and I probably approach this the way Billy does.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

...after 3 weeks of practice still don't know they can't dribble with both hands, or they can't stop a dribble and then dribble again.

[Adam]

I'm probably somewhere in the middle between you two, but...

And, with that....