Ball comes in contact with both hands while dribbling

[Raymond]

And what if the defender hits the ball OOB before it hits the floor?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And what if the defender hits the ball OOB before it hits the floor?

I'd have to see it, but I think I got nothing. This would have to happen so quickly I'm thinking you really couldn't tell what the offensive player was trying to do.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'd have to see it, but I think I got nothing. This would have to happen so quickly I'm thinking you really couldn't tell what the offensive player was trying to do.

You mean he might be trying to do something other than dribble? I've never seen this play happen where there weren't any other players around, offense and defense. An attempted bounce pass is almost always on the table. So is an attempt to throw it off the defender.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

You mean he might be trying to do something other than dribble? An attempted bounce pass is almost always on the table. So is an attempt to throw it off the defender.

Exactly, he might be trying to do something other than dribble. That is a determination we must make. Nine times out of ten, on the start of a dribble, the ball will be touched a second time by the dribbler. But, on the rare occasion when it doesn't, the lack of a second touch should not prevent the violation from being whistled.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Exactly, he might be trying to do something other than dribble. That is a determination we must make. Nine times out of ten, on the start of a dribble, the ball will be touched a second time by the dribbler. But, on the rare occasion when it doesn't, the lack of a second touch should not prevent the violation from being whistled.

I'm going to walk back just a hair here and state that if there is literally no other option when he pushes the ball to the floor, I'll agree that you could call the ID violation even if something happens before he touches it again.

I just haven't seen that situation, nor has it been described here.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm going to walk back just a hair here and state that if there is literally no other option when he pushes the ball to the floor, I'll agree that you could call the ID violation even if something happens before he touches it again.

I just haven't seen that situation, nor has it been described here.

But nothing has to happen at all. I saw the play once when A1 caught the ball, used his dribble, and pulled up near the endline out close to the 3 pt line. A few seconds passed, then something happened, I don't remember what, he faked a pass, defenders were just caught moving to their correct positions, or something. But A1 found himself with a clear path to the basket. Apparently he forgot for a split second that he had no dribble. He put the ball on the floor, took his first step........and then he remembered. He stopped and put both hands on his head. There was a whistle. No further action was necessary or allowable. It was the start of a dribble. A1 knew it. The official knew it. Everybody in the gym knew it.

Say a teammate is closest in this situation. Would you let the play go if A1 beckons him over? "Hey, A2, come get the ball. I can't touch it again."

I wouldn't.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

....Say a teammate is closest in this situation. Would you let the play go if A1 beckons him over? "Hey, A2, come get the ball. I can't touch it again."

I wouldn't.

Yes I would...and I would continue to get games from my supervisors.