Camps......How many and how much $$$$$

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnny d

too bad those camps are not going to have the assignors for the Big Ten, MAC, Summit, Big 12, Ohio Valley.......and the list goes on and on.

The point remains, you're paying money for access only and they're making very good money. You're not paying for the instruction. How many jobs do you know of do you have to pay for the interview?

And a good number of people going to those camps are never going to get picked up by any of those assignors, ever. For most, they can get all the same benefit for 1/2 the price.

If it makes you fell good to tell your buddies you paid to meet the Big Ten assignor and paid him a lot of money to watch you work a game, then have fun with that.

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point remains, you're paying money for access only and they're making very good money. You're not paying for the instruction. How many jobs do you know of do you have to pay for the interview?

Let's say I wanted to be a cop in a small town. No civil service, the chief hires the cops.

Is it OK for the mayor to:

-- announce he's conducting a "cop camp" and make it clear by words or impressions that if I want the cop job it would be good for me to go to cop camp,

-- charge the people attending cop camp money to work assorted unfilled shifts as a cop without compensation even thought the city budgets for it and collects taxes for it

-- throw some favored off-duty cop a few bucks to 'supervise' with an inherent promise of future favors in return

--keep the money budgeted for the vacant positions for himself.

Now let us say that some of these camps are run by assignors for state associations or public college conferences. Looks crooked as a dog's hind leg. People are making money in exchange for considering people for jobs financed with taxpayer money.

But then, this is a calling in which officials at the highest levels can plead guilty to federal charges for pocketing cash in an airline ticket scam and end calling a world championship game.

In any other business, or in government, demanding cash up front for considering someone for job is a shakedown and it gets you jail time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

...
Now let us say that some of these camps are run by assignors for state associations or public college conferences. Looks crooked as a dog's hind leg. People are making money in exchange for considering people for jobs financed with taxpayer money.
....

This is something Ed T. Rush was hoping to change.

I've spoken recently to a couple of current NBA refs who don't like that system either.

[Multiple Sports]

Next camp you go to start doing the math, camps are a necessary evil I guess

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Next camp you go to start doing the math, camps are a necessary evil I guess

Camps are necessary, but it isn't necessary that they be $450/per for a large number of campers.

If an assignor wanted to have a tryout camp, they could do so by just having a series of games at one of these tournaments where they would personally watch officials work...maybe even pocketing the game fees for their time. They could be selective in who gets spots they don't need to watch 50 people who have no chance of ever getting hired just to find 4-5 people. Applicants could send in a recent game video and the assignor could know from there whether the person had a chance of being qualified or not.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Camps are necessary, but it isn't necessary that they be $450/per for a large number of campers.

If an assignor wanted to have a tryout camp, they could do so by just having a series of games at one of these tournaments where they would personally watch officials work...maybe even pocketing the game fees for their time. They could be selective in who gets spots they don't need to watch 50 people who have no chance of ever getting hired just to find 4-5 people. Applicants could send in a recent game video and the assignor could know from there whether the person had a chance of being qualified or not.

Cam,

I agree with you 100%. That is kinda what the outgoing supervisor of the MAAC does... He charges $75 to work two AAU games. He brings in roughly 75 guys
and hires 3 or 4. Have gone several times.....have no issues on how he operates.....

[BatteryPowered]

The association I belonged to in Texas puts on a 3-man camp each September. We use the area high school summer league teams...each team pays $150 and they have around 26 teams (host school gets two teams in at no charge and they keep concessions). They have a sign on every court letting everyone know the event is hosted and organized by the officials association and not the schools. Campers pay $175...get a t-shirt, another goodie (bag, pre-game board, etc.), 4 hours of classroom sessions and work 3 or 4 games. They get a DVD of each game and a post game critique as a crew.

Even at those rates, the association CLEARS about ten grand. Gives you some idea what a camp clears that charges $400.

[JRutledge]

Until they make officials employees and start paying the other benefits, it is going to stay this way. The NCAA and the schools are not going to be willing to put all of this money into officiating program without a fight. It may change, but not anytime soon.

Peace

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Until they make officials employees and start paying the other benefits, it is going to stay this way.

Money is paid to officials; you don't need "other benefits" for it to be publicly funded pay for work performed for a public entity and you can't shake people down for cash if they are seeking to perform public work for pay -- whether as an employee, a supplier or an independent contractor. If the 1099 has the name of a government agency on it, taking money for getting a person in a position to receive that compensation, with or without benefits, is a shakedown and a kickback. If the 1099 has the name of an athletic association on it, and that association charges public institutions for the service of providing officials, it's a shakedown and a kickback.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Until they make officials employees and start paying the other benefits, it is going to stay this way. The NCAA and the schools are not going to be willing to put all of this money into officiating program without a fight. It may change, but not anytime soon.

This is a good point—and I don't think it even rises to the level of the NCAA. Many conferences are probably willing to fund officiating camps, but have their legal team advising them against it.

When you start training people that work for you that is one step across the line from contractor to employee—contractors are supposed to already be trained, at their own expense. I don't think any conferences are interested in having officials become employees—at least I have never heard any conference office personnel say it was a good idea!

[Brad]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

But then, this is a calling in which officials at the highest levels can plead guilty to federal charges for pocketing cash in an airline ticket scam

Downgrading first class tickets to coach, keeping the cash, but not declaring it as "income" is hardly a "scam". GMAFB.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And a good number of people going to those camps are never going to get picked up by any of those assignors, ever.

Yes, but they don't know that.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.