Camps......How many and how much $$$$$

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

[LIST]
There is also a D1 camp 6 miles from my house but it costs 580. I'm probably not going to that one :P

I question any camp that costs that much, at any level. It may have good instruction but someone is making very good money on it. There are going to other very good camps that you can learn just as much at for 1/2 that or less.

[Toren]

5 camps

tryout camp (150) in May
exposure camp (200) in June
tryout camp (175) in June
exposure camp (425) in July
exposure camp (495) in July

The June tryout camp and July exposure camps I had to rent a car and get a hotel.

Luckily, I was able to find another referee to share a room with, so the costs of hotel and car were halved.

I already told wife, this summer will not be repeated. I'm thinking 3-4 camps from now on.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

...
There is also a D1 camp 6 miles from my house but it costs 580. I'm probably not going to that one :P

Sounds like either a Curtis Shaw or Mike Wood camp. Above my means. Not to mention folks who have to fly in, rent a car, and get a room.

[SWMOzebra]

In the summer of '11, I attended 7 camps and spent over $1200 on just the camp fees. Two of the assignors I worked for, the other 5 were tryout camps. I realized that year that 7 was far too many as I was seeing the same clinicians at multiple camps.

In 2012, I attended 5 camps ... 3 for conferences in which I worked, 2 for tryouts. Still some repetition as far as clinicians, but much better than 2011.

This summer, I've cut back to 3 camps ... all for assignors for whom I work. One camp did have the bonus of having a different NAIA conference assignor working as a clinician and I think I have a very good chance to get games from him, but that was not my reason for going.

Long story short, this summer it's 3 camps with camp fees totaling $410.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

I could get a shiny belt from you.

It's not shiny, it's just black. I would look ridiculous, and unprofessional, wearing a shiny, black belt. Real basketball officials do not wear shiny, black belts. They wear black belts.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Look I started a thread and did the majority of the posting....you taught us well.....

Don't get too sassy, and puffed up, about it. I'm the Forum "king" of self-posting, as well as self-answering. Nobody does it better than me. Nobody. And be careful while attempting this. You can easily get hurt. You're just an amateur. Self-posting should be left to the professionals, like me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Lone Ranger reruns until then.

I can't wait for the movie to come out in a few weeks. As a big fan of the 1950's television series, I'm afraid that I'll be disappointed in the movie, but I'm still going on the first night.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You win a free, autographed B-Mac belt buckle.

Here's my favorite belt buckle:



Whenever I wear this buckle with my black belt, I never have game management problems with coaches. Don't know why, but I never do.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can't wait for the movie to come out in a few weeks. As a big fan of the 1950's television series, I'm afraid that I'll be disappointed in the movie, but I'm still going on the first night.

Also, for your information (hey, it's the off season):

The Lone Ranger is never seen without his mask or a disguise.
With emphasis on logic, The Lone Ranger is never captured or held for any length of time by lawmen, avoiding his being unmasked.
The Lone Ranger always uses perfect grammar and precise speech completely devoid of slang and colloquial phrases, at all times.
When he has to use guns, The Lone Ranger never shoots to kill, but rather only to disarm his opponent as painlessly as possible.
Logically, too, The Lone Ranger never wins against hopeless odds; i.e., he is never seen escaping from a barrage of bullets merely by riding into the horizon.
Even though The Lone Ranger offers his aid to individuals or small groups, the ultimate objective of his story never fails to imply that their benefit is only a by-product of a greater achievement—the development of the west or our country. His adversaries are usually groups whose power is such that large areas are at stake.
Adversaries are never other than American to avoid criticism from minority groups.
Names of unsympathetic characters are carefully chosen, never consisting of two names if it can be avoided, to avoid even further vicarious association—more often than not, a single nickname is selected.
The Lone Ranger never drinks or smokes, and saloon scenes are usually interpreted as cafes, with waiters and food instead of bartenders and liquor.
Criminals are never shown in enviable positions of wealth or power, and they never appear as successful or glamorous.
The Lone Ranger uses only silver bullets, to remind himself that life, too, is precious and, like his silver bullets, not to be wasted or thrown away.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I question any camp that costs that much, at any level. It may have good instruction but someone is making very good money on it. There are going to other very good camps that you can learn just as much at for 1/2 that or less.

I doubt this is an instruction camp. I imagine it costs so much because you are trying to get picked up by D1 conferences, probably has fewer than 30 campers, and the clinicians are paid. The guy in charge may make a lot, but probably less than you think.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I doubt this is an instruction camp. I imagine it costs so much because you are trying to get picked up by D1 conferences, probably has fewer than 30 campers, and the clinicians are paid. The guy in charge may make a lot, but probably less than you think.

All D1 clinicians are paid. And don't forget the tournament pays the supervisor for filling each officiating slot.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I doubt this is an instruction camp. I imagine it costs so much because you are trying to get picked up by D1 conferences, probably has fewer than 30 campers, and the clinicians are paid. The guy in charge may make a lot, but probably less than you think.

If are charging that much, they're making a lot of money.

And an instruction camp should cost more than a try-out camp. It takes more people to run. Try-out camps could be free with the assignor making all the money off the game fees that the tourney pays them.

Lets go through the numbers...

Camper pays $500 to work 5 games (could be 1-2 more or less but that is a common amount and it makes the math easy). That is $100 per game PER official.

The tournament host also pays $60-100 per game for the officials....maybe even more in some areas.

So, per game, for a 3-person game, there is about $400 going into the pot. Exactly how much of that do you think the camp organizer is paying the observer for each game? $100, maybe $150....for 4-6 games in a day. Even if it is $200/game, there is still another $200/game going to the organizer.

The size of the camp isn't really a big factor...more campers, more clinicians. Those cost should scale linearly. In fact, most of the costs should scale with the number of campers.

Sure, there are some other fixed expenses but don't believe for one second that someone isn't making good money on a $500/camper camp. I've been to plenty of camps (with several D1 and D2 officials as clinicians, and D2 and D3 assignors) and none of them cost anywhere near that...and some even included lodging and food for less than that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

All D1 clinicians are paid. And don't forget the tournament pays the supervisor for filling each officiating slot.

The same goes for the local official's association camps. They pay the clinicians there too to work those games and use the money the officials would be paid for those clinicians to sit there all day and evaluate those that paid to attend camps. As well as insurance or other expenses the camp has to deal with like food or water or even in some cases hotels.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The same goes for the local official's association camps. They pay the clinicians there too to work those games and use the money the officials would be paid for those clinicians to sit there all day and evaluate those that paid to attend camps. As well as insurance or other expenses the camp has to deal with like food or water or even in some cases hotels.

Peace

Our local association charges about $60 per camper and we don't pay the clinicians anything -- it's volunteer work for us. Football and basketball. And I'm willing to be our campers learn more than they would in some camps. Of course they can't come to our camp and *try out* for anything...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Our local association charges about $60 per camper and we don't pay the clinicians anything -- it's volunteer work for us. Football and basketball. And I'm willing to be our campers learn more than they would in some camps. Of course they can't come to our camp and *try out* for anything...

I look at it like this. If I am going to sit there all day from 9:00am to 9:00pm, I think you should get paid. And when I am doing that 2 days in a row and I could be doing a lot of other things for money. Even the camp that I volunteered at last weekend the assignor made sure we did not stay there all day and worked games in the same tournament in between the times we were there. But no one else does it that way and pays their clinicians as they should. There is a league that I am involved in that we ran as a camp through an association and it was 3 days a week and we used clinicians who were not around the corner to cover courts and give instruction. Of course those people should get paid IMO.

Also most camps are run by assignors who ask officials with no other ties to the assignor and those assignors ask those people to show up and make their camp worth it to campers. So the assignor could take home all the money, but you are paying for people's time as much as their knowledge. And when many of the guys are D1, college and state finals officials why not pay them? And our camps are also for clinic credit which goes to post season consideration and now promotion consideration. If you make it volunteer you might not get the staff to work.

Peace