NFHS June 6, 2013 Release ...

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Most likely the O-player will make that decision based on who he thinks has the best possibility to get to the ball and not on our signal/no signal (which he may not even notice anyway.) I'm not totally opposed to the mechanic, I just think the rationale is weak and, that it might encourage some officials to expand its use to other situations (such as blocked shots) which we have always discouraged.

It may be more likely that others in the gym are more likely to see the signal (partners, coaches, fans, and other players) than the one ot two players going after the ball.......

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by grunewar

It may be more likely that others in the gym are more likely to see the signal (partners, coaches, fans, and other players) than the one or two players going after the ball.......

"This signal increases the official's ability to communicate with the players, coaches and fans on critical plays." (period)

Right. What you said and the NFHS statement above is sufficient. To me, the rest of the verbiage is what I felt to be weak.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...and I've never, ever, seen it work.

Originally Posted by grunewar

Me neither.

I've seen it in HS varsity. And to the point of letting the clock run, I've seen it work. Why not get 3-4 more seconds off the clock with a 4 point lead with 30 seconds to go. But if they knew they could pick it up, they would. I don't like that advantage.

[Raymond]

A visible count also gives information, so what's the big deal?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why not get 3-4 more seconds off the clock with a 4 point lead with 30 seconds to go.

IMO - under the pressure of a game situation, I don't think a lot of players are that "basketball smart."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A visible count also gives information, so what's the big deal?

Do you tell them what the count is or yell pass it when you get to 4?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've seen it in HS varsity. And to the point of letting the clock run, I've seen it work. Why not get 3-4 more seconds off the clock with a 4 point lead with 30 seconds to go. But if they knew they could pick it up, whey would. I don't like that advantage.

I've seen it too. Either this past season or in '11-12 I had a BV player ask me whether he could touch the ball as he was running into the backcourt. The kid let it keep rolling since I didn't answer him...and let the defender pick up the ball. After his coach yelled at him he said "but the ref didn't tell me whether I could pick it up!" Happily, his coach told him he should have picked it up regardless.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Do you tell them what the count is or yell pass it when you get to 4?

Do you yell out "tipped ball"?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That may be the way you're using it but they're pretty much telling us to help the players play.

The kick signal you referred to above was used after the whistle to communicate what the call was. It was not an aide to the player while the ball was still in play.

I have never been under the impression that any of the players directly involved in the play even knows what we are signaling or doing. Usually the play happens so fast that if we are going to call a violation there is no time to give this signal in the first place. I have given the signal when I was telling others why I was not calling a violation, but that is rather rare.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have never been under the impression that any of the players directly involved in the play even knows what we are signaling or doing. Usually the play happens so fast that if we are going to call a violation there is no time to give this signal in the first place. I have given the signal when I was telling others why I was not calling a violation, but that is rather rare.

Peace

A player chasing a basketball rarely turns his head to see if the official is giving some kind of signal

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A player chasing a basketball rarely turns his head to see if the official is giving some kind of signal

An offensive player is racing for the ball to prevent an easy basket as well, which is usually the case in these situations.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Do you yell out "tipped ball"?

Fair enough. Let me rephrase....

When you count, to you indicate the count you are on with your fingers so they can see how far into the count you are?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Fair enough. Let me rephrase....

When you count, to you indicate the count you are on with your fingers so they can see how far into the count you are?

You make it sound like people are actually paying that close attention to us in the first place. Sorry, they do not. I have called closely guarded violations and my signal is rather deliberate and teams are often surprised when the violation by me is called. You are giving players too much credit for watching what we are doing. Usually a coach is the one yelling out that we started a count (In my experience) and that is when the ball is isolated and not moving near the division line.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Fair enough. Let me rephrase....

When you count, to you indicate the count you are on with your fingers so they can see how far into the count you are?

Me, personally, no. But I've met some officials who do. Also some who count out loud.

I think this is a whole bunch ado about nothing. Most times the tip signal is given immediately as information to whomever is looking. It's not like we're continously giving the signal until the ball is recovered or like a player turns to us as the ball is rolling away then we give the signal in response.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think this is a whole bunch ado about nothing.

I agree...there was no problem that needed fixing. The only thing that I take issue with is the NFHS's stated purpose that it is intended to communicate to the players...not that they'll actually be able to see it and use the info. It just doesn't make sense.