NFHS June 6, 2013 Release ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think the signal is really for your partner, not anyone else.

Not according to the NFHS: "This signal increases the official's ability to communicate with the players, coaches and fans on critical plays".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not according to the NFHS: "This signal increases the official's ability to communicate with the players, coaches and fans on critical plays".

I know what they said, but that is not the real benefit of the signal and not the reason officials used the signal in the first place. Officials were using this signal long before the NF approved it.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know what they said, but that is not the real benefit of the signal and not the reason officials used the signal in the first place. Officials were using this signal long before the NF approved it.

Peace

That may be the way you're using it but they're pretty much telling us to help the players play.

The kick signal you referred to above was used after the whistle to communicate what the call was. It was not an aide to the player while the ball was still in play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That may be the way you're using it but they're pretty much telling us to help the players play.

The kick signal you referred to above was used after the whistle to communicate what the call was. It was not an aide to the player while the ball was still in play.

I have never been under the impression that any of the players directly involved in the play even knows what we are signaling or doing. Usually the play happens so fast that if we are going to call a violation there is no time to give this signal in the first place. I have given the signal when I was telling others why I was not calling a violation, but that is rather rare.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have never been under the impression that any of the players directly involved in the play even knows what we are signaling or doing. Usually the play happens so fast that if we are going to call a violation there is no time to give this signal in the first place. I have given the signal when I was telling others why I was not calling a violation, but that is rather rare.

Peace

A player chasing a basketball rarely turns his head to see if the official is giving some kind of signal

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A player chasing a basketball rarely turns his head to see if the official is giving some kind of signal

An offensive player is racing for the ball to prevent an easy basket as well, which is usually the case in these situations.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A player chasing a basketball rarely turns his head to see if the official is giving some kind of signal.

Sometimes they'll (offense, or defense) take a peek out of the corner of their eye to see if the official is counting for a closely guarded situation.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BillyMac
2013-14 BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES

TIP SIGNAL: This signal increases the official's ability to communicate with the players, coaches and fans on critical plays. Immediately communicating whether or not the defense tipped the ball allows the offensive team to immediately know whether or not they can recover the ball without penalty. Having no signal actually gives the defense an unfair advantage as they do not need to know which team caused the ball to enter the backcourt, they can recover the ball without penalty regardless.

Why should that matter to the offense? They still need to be the first to recover the ball to prevent an easy score by the opponent regardless of whether the ball was tipped or not.

[just another ref]

How does a tip signal help the offense? As stated above, if the ball is loose in the backcourt, the offense will try to go and get it whether it is a violation or not. The main value I see is to keep some partners I could name from calling a violation right in front of me from 60 feet away. It might also keep the 3 knowledgeable fans in the house from yelling for a violation. The other 300 will yell for it anyway.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Why should that matter to the offense? They still need to be the first to recover the ball to prevent an easy score by the opponent regardless of whether the ball was tipped or not.

Originally Posted by just another ref

How does a tip signal help the offense? As stated above, if the ball is loose in the backcourt, the offense will try to go and get it whether it is a violation or not. The main value I see is to keep some partners I could name from calling a violation right in front of me from 60 feet away. It might also keep the 3 knowledgeable fans in the house from yelling for a violation. The other 300 will yell for it anyway.

The offense can choose to get it immediately or to get into a position to either defend if the can or perhaps let the opponent touch it first then try to get it.

I think the signal should NOT be immediate but only upon someone touching it if it wasn't obvious. Any moment before that and we're influencing the actual play.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The offense can choose to get it immediately or to get into a position to either defend if they can......

Getting it immediately gives the offense the opportunity to get all players back to defend. I've never seen a player ignore a chance to touch the ball to hurry back to a defensive position instead.

.......or perhaps let the opponent touch it first then try to get it.

Not gonna say it never happens, but this is a really bad idea.

I think the signal should NOT be immediate but only upon someone touching it if it wasn't obvious.

In my experience this is the way the signal is used, and probably will continue to be.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Getting it immediately gives the offense the opportunity to get all players back to defend. I've never seen a player ignore a chance to touch the ball to hurry back to a defensive position instead.

I have. I've seen players hover over the ball as it rolled towards the backcourt endline. Only when a defender approached did they grab it. They thought they had touched it last and expected a violation but I'm guessing they wanted to let the clock run just a bit longer. If I were to indicate tip, that would be a signal to them that it was safe to pick up the ball. Is that really fair? Shouldn't they have to play based on what they see and hear instead of looking to us for information?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've seen players hover over the ball as it rolled towards the backcourt endline.

Me too, in little kid's games. They know that it's wrong to touch the ball first, so they hover, waiting for an opportunity to scoop up the ball after it's been touched by an opponent. I've seen this dozens of times, as a young player, a middle school coach, and an official, and I've never, ever, seen it work.

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Shouldn't they have to play based on what they see and hear instead of looking to us for information?

Bingo.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The offense can choose to get it immediately or to get into a position to either defend if they can or perhaps let the opponent touch it first then try to get it.

I think the signal should NOT be immediate but only upon someone touching it if it wasn't obvious. Any moment before that and we're influencing the actual play.

Most likely the O-player will make that decision based on who he thinks has the best possibility to get to the ball and not on our signal/no signal (which he may not even notice anyway.) I'm not totally opposed to the mechanic, I just think the rationale is weak and, that it might encourage some officials to expand its use to other situations (such as blocked shots) which we have always discouraged.