Pacers vs Heat - Game 5 (Video Request)

[grunewar]

More physicality:

With just over nine minutes left in the 2nd Qtr the Heat's Andersen lowered his shoulder to body check Pacers forward Tyler Hansbrough. After Hansbrough got up, Andersen bumped him and then shoved him. An official rushed over to separate the two. Each received a T. The incident was reviewed and Andersen was assessed an F1 for unnecessary contact.

[Raymond]

He actually knocked Hanbrough down with the first body block. Then he shoved him when they came back together. The combination of those 2 things should have earned him an ejection, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if Birdman is not in the line-up Saturday night.

In NCAA(FF2)/Fed(FPF), he easily could have been ejected based on the initial body block.

And to top it off he improperly targetted Hanbrough, George is the player who pushed him on the previous play.

[ballgame99]

Can't believe Hansbrough would be penalized at all for this.

[JRutledge]

Once again, I do not think Tyler H is penalized for a push or not a push. He is penalized (rightfully so) for approaching Birdman and helping escalate the incident. If that happens in a NCAA or NF game I am working, it is an easy decision on my part. Do not tell me folks allow a player to do that and not do anything to them?

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again, I do not think Tyler H is penalized for a push or not a push. He is penalized (rightfully so) for approaching Birdman and helping escalate the incident. If that happens in a NCAA or NF game I am working, it is an easy decision on my part. Do not tell me folks allow a player to do that and not do anything to them?

Peace

I disagree completely.

Lets look at the facts.

1. Anderson targets Tyler and cheap shots him and knocks him over.
2. Tyler gets up, upset of course (who would have thunk it). And steps towards Anderson's direction. What else is a rational person supposed to do?
3. Anderson squares up with him. Here both Tyler and Anderson are probably sharing words.
4. Anderson shoves him again.
5. Hansboro does not retaliate.

Anderson isn't ejected and I completely disagree with Hansboro's T. If you are going to give a double T in that instance, which I assume for squaring up and talking trash, then hit Anderson with another one for the shove.

But I would have him tossed for the first contact when he took a cheap shot and issued him with a flagrant.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

I disagree completely.

Lets look at the facts.

1. Anderson targets Tyler and cheap shots him and knocks him over.
2. Tyler gets up, upset of course (who would have thunk it). And steps towards Anderson's direction. What else is a rational person supposed to do?

Walk away.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again, I do not think Tyler H is penalized for a push or not a push. He is penalized (rightfully so) for approaching Birdman and helping escalate the incident. If that happens in a NCAA or NF game I am working, it is an easy decision on my part. Do not tell me folks allow a player to do that and not do anything to them?

Peace

By "approaching" Anderson, I assume you are referring to the 6 inch step Hansbrough took toward Anderson? If that is "approaching" then you must have a lot of T's in your games...

Now maybe he said something he shouldn't have. Fine, give him the T. But no way did Hansbrough get up and go after Anderson. And to give both of them the same penalty for that altercation is, imo, ridiculous.

My other thought on this is why did it take the official so long to get in there. He blew the whistle on the initial cheap shot move by Anderson, and then just stood out there. Maybe closing in and getting in there could have stopped the rest of this? Maybe not...not sure I would want to get in between those two, but at least get into the area and make your presence known.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Walk away.

Anyone who does that in this instance would be a robot. He took 1/2 - 1 full step in Anderson's direction. Saying his actions and Anderson's are equal is just malarky IMO.

[JRutledge]

Unless you know he did not say something or words were not exchanged on any level, you have no idea why there was or would not have been given. They clearly had words. He did not walk away and at least in my experience at levels lower than the NBA, it is completely warranted to give a T for a player that has words and approaches a player no matter what they did to them. It is no different then if a guy pops off and then he is punched. Well in the NF rules for sure that is considered fighting for saying something that instigates a fight. This was not quite a fight, but I am not saying Tyler H is innocent. And the officials was there to know what was said or not said on some level.

And unless someone can find me a rule that says how far they step towards or when it acceptable to get in the face of an opponent, then it is up to the official on the floor to determine what is over the top. This is why we get paid the big bucks (and certainly an NBA official) to make those decisions.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by deecee

Anyone who does that in this instance would be a robot. He took 1/2 - 1 full step in Anderson's direction. Saying his actions and Anderson's are equal is just malarky IMO.

He didn't even move that far...he is knocked down and lands on the free throw line. After standing back up, his feet are never more than about 6" from the free throw line. Anderson takes two full steps - from outside the half circle - and makes the contact with Hansbrough. Like you said - malarkey.

As I already said, maybe Hansbrough said something to deserve the T. Don't know. But unless he did say the magic words, no way did both players deserve the same penalty for that "after the cheap shot" action.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

He didn't even move that far...he is knocked down and lands on the free throw line. After standing back up, his feet are never more than about 6" from the free throw line. Anderson takes two full steps - from outside the half circle - and makes the contact with Hansbrough. Like you said - malarkey.

As I already said, maybe Hansbrough said something to deserve the T. Don't know. But unless he did say the magic words, no way did both players deserve the same penalty for that "after the cheap shot" action.

APG can probably explain the actual rule, but I believe this is a double foul in the NBA where at other levels it would not be. I still see a T on Tyler H, but it would not be a double foul (maybe a false double). And that is why we all do not have the same judgment. Maybe in your game you would call nothing and others would.

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

If Hansbrough gets a T on that play, then Anderson should have been ejected.

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

If Hansbrough gets a T on that play, then Anderson should have been ejected.

Bingo. Here's the breakdown I see.

Hansbrough:
Technical for not walking away/jawing at Anderson

Anderson:
Flagrant 1 for hip-checking Hansbrough
Technical for shoving Hansbrough

Where is Anderson's technical for not walking away/jawing at Hansbrough?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Bingo. Here's the breakdown I see.

Hansbrough:
Technical for not walking away/jawing at Anderson

Anderson:
Flagrant 1 for hip-checking Hansbrough
Technical for shoving Hansbrough

Where is Anderson's technical for not walking away/jawing at Hansbrough?

Um, that is exactly what appears to have happened in this situation. You do not give another T for a shove. Now if you consider one of those other acts as a flagrant 2 act, that is fine.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Bingo. Here's the breakdown I see.

Hansbrough:
Technical for not walking away/jawing at Anderson

Anderson:
Flagrant 1 for hip-checking Hansbrough
Technical for shoving Hansbrough

Where is Anderson's technical for not walking away/jawing at Hansbrough?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Um, that is exactly what appears to have happened in this situation. You do not give another T for a shove. Now if you consider one of those other acts as a flagrant 2 act, that is fine.

Peace

Why not?

If Hansbrough is getting a T for what he did, the right thing to do is call Anderson for a live ball personal F1 and a dead ball T. The shove was a completely separate act from the initial foul and deserves its own penalty.