Official NCAAM and NCAAW Proposed Rule Changes for 2013-14 Season

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

[B]

In regard to the block/charge call in men’s basketball, the committee is proposing that a defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his upward motion with the ball to attempt a field goal or pass. If the defensive player is not in legal guarding position by this time, it is a blocking foul.

The current rule calls for a defender to be in legal guarding position before the offensive player lifts off the floor.

Committee members believe this will give officials more time to determine block/charge calls. Committee members also believe the tweak to the block/charge rule will:
•Allow for more offensive freedom;
•Provide clarity for officials in making this difficult call; and
•Enhance the balance between offense and defense.

I don't mind calling it that way if the rules specify that but A lot of guys called it like anyway. So they might as well change the rule to match what some are calling so that it has a chance of being consistent.

I disagree with the point that that it will give officials more time to determine block/charge or that it will provide any more clarity in making the call. It won't. It simply moves the point where a decision goes to a block vs. a charge. The official still has to make a decision and it will still come down to splitting hairs, just different hairs.

It will allow for more freedom of movement...the defender's job just got harder to perform legally. So, it will lead to more successful attacks at the basket.

I also wouldn't say it "Enhances the balance" between offense and defense. It just changes it. People that like good defense will not think it is an enhancement.

[rockyroad]

Question on the 10 second count being added in NCAAW...do the NCAAM use the shot clock to determine the 10 second count as this article says the NCAAW will? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. Maybe I am wrong on this, but on a throw-in in the back court, the clock and 30 sec clock start on a defensive tip, but the count doesn't start until A has control, correct? So why would they use the shot clock to determine the 10 sec count?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Question on the 10 second count being added in NCAAW...do the NCAAM use the shot clock to determine the 10 second count as this article says the NCAAW will? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. Maybe I am wrong on this, but on a throw-in in the back court, the clock and 30 sec clock start on a defensive tip, but the count doesn't start until A has control, correct? So why would they use the shot clock to determine the 10 sec count?

No, the official's count is the governing factor in NCAAM, not what the shot clock says. Of course, one can use the shot clock when the first touch is a clean catch establishing control inbounds.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Question on the 10 second count being added in NCAAW...do the NCAAM use the shot clock to determine the 10 second count as this article says the NCAAW will? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. Maybe I am wrong on this, but on a throw-in in the back court, the clock and 30 sec clock start on a defensive tip, but the count doesn't start until A has control, correct? So why would they use the shot clock to determine the 10 sec count?

From what I'm being told by my friendly neighborhood NCAA interpreter, the women's rule - if approved - will be similar to the NBA: shot clock determines the violation *AND* no new 10-second count if the team in control takes a timeout or the defense commits a violation.

For me, this rule will become a real headache if it's adopted for my GV games in NYS. Since we usually have students at the table I'm generally thrilled when I can find a shot-clock operator who resets the thing when he/she is supposed to more than 75% of the time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

From what I'm being told by my friendly neighborhood NCAA interpreter, the women's rule - if approved - will be similar to the NBA: shot clock determines the violation *AND* no new 10-second count if the team in control takes a timeout or the defense commits a violation.
...

So Player Control will not be required before starting your 10-second backcourt count if play begins with a throw-in?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So Player Control will not be required before starting your 10-second backcourt count if play begins with a throw-in?

According to my friendly neighborhood interpreter, that's correct.

NCAAW = 10-second count begins when the ball is TOUCHED by Team A in its backcourt.

NCAAM = 10-second count begins when the ball is CONTROLLED by an inbounds player from Team A in their backcourt.

Given that TC exists on a throw-in, the way the women are handling it makes sense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

According to my friendly neighborhood interpreter, that's correct.

NCAAW = 10-second count begins when the ball is TOUCHED by Team A in its backcourt.

NCAAM = 10-second count begins when the ball is CONTROLLED by an inbounds player from Team A in their backcourt.

Given that TC exists on a throw-in, the way the women are handling it makes sense.

I disagree with that last statment totally. But then again old-timers use the shot clock as the guage which is wrong.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

According to my friendly neighborhood interpreter, that's correct.

NCAAW = 10-second count begins when the ball is TOUCHED by Team A in its backcourt.

NCAAM = 10-second count begins when the ball is CONTROLLED by an inbounds player from Team A in their backcourt.

Given that TC exists on a throw-in, the way the women are handling it makes sense.

Wow.

And if the defense touches the ball first? Shot clock doesn't start??? Or it does and the offense's 10 second Count started when the other team tipped the ball???

[Nevadaref]

What's the big deal? The rule can be written however they wish.
All that they need do is word it such that following a team initially being awarded a throw-in the team with the ball must advance it to the frontcourt prior to 10 seconds coming off the shot clock.
For a ball which gets knocked into the backcourt during a possession, they could put in a rule requiring returning it to the frontcourt within ten seconds or they could just permit the team to use the rest of the shot clock.
It doesn't matter how they do it as long as everyone is clear on what the rule is.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And if the defense touches the ball first? Shot clock doesn't start??? Or it does and the offense's 10 second Count started when the other team tipped the ball???

I'll get clarification on that.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

According to my friendly neighborhood interpreter, that's correct.

NCAAW = 10-second count begins when the ball is TOUCHED by Team A in its backcourt.

NCAAM = 10-second count begins when the ball is CONTROLLED by an inbounds player from Team A in their backcourt.

Given that TC exists on a throw-in, the way the women are handling it makes sense.

This is correct for NCAAW - it was a big topic in a camp I was at last weekend.

[brainbrian]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

NCAAW = 10-second count begins when the ball is TOUCHED by Team A in its backcourt.

NCAAM = 10-second count begins when the ball is CONTROLLED by an inbounds player from Team A in their backcourt.

Does that mean now there will be a difference in when the shot clock should start after a made basket between the men's and women's game?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by brainbrian

Does that mean now there will be a difference in when the shot clock should start after a made basket between the men's and women's game?

Nope. That's already in NCAA 2-11-5 (Duties of shot-clock operator) which hasn't been changed.

Start the timing device when a player inbounds legally touches or is touched by the ball on a throw-in or when a team initially gains possession from a jump ball, an unsuccessful try for goal or when possession of a loose ball is gained after a jump ball or unsuccessful try for goal.

So...in NCAAM the ball could touch a member of Team B on a throw-in in the backcourt, both teams could scramble for it in the backcourt for 10 seconds, Team A could then recover the ball in the backcourt and Team A would still have 10 seconds to advance the ball to the frontcourt.

In NCAAW, that same play would be a violation once 10 seconds ran off the shot clock.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't mind calling it that way if the rules specify that but A lot of guys called it like anyway. So they might as well change the rule to match what some are calling so that it has a chance of being consistent.

I disagree with the point that that it will give officials more time to determine block/charge or that it will provide any more clarity in making the call. It won't. It simply moves the point where a decision goes to a block vs. a charge. The official still has to make a decision and it will still come down to splitting hairs, just different hairs.

It will allow for more freedom of movement...the defender's job just got harder to perform legally. So, it will lead to more successful attacks at the basket.

I also wouldn't say it "Enhances the balance" between offense and defense. It just changes it. People that like good defense will not think it is an enhancement.

Ditto to what Camron said. Please refer to my comments in the other thread about how this is being done with the hope to increase scoring and revenue.

Obviously none of this NCAA material is being written or said by an official because the statements and conclusions don't make sense from an officiating standpoint. It's all about the $.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't mind calling it that way if the rules specify that but A lot of guys called it like anyway. So they might as well change the rule to match what some are calling so that it has a chance of being consistent.

Amen! That is almost verbatim what I have been saying about it —*not as much as that's how some officials were calling it, but that's how coaches / players / fans think it should be called that way! So, you either have to reeducate all of the coaches, players, and fans ... or change the rule. At least something is changing.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The official still has to make a decision and it will still come down to splitting hairs, just different hairs.

So true. I do think it makes the play more obvious though. It should be easier to tell if a defensive player had position or not. However, that doesn't mean that there won't be controversy!!