The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   T or no T (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94956-t-no-t.html)

BLydic Mon May 06, 2013 05:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 893051)
Definitely a brief discussion as she saunters by...good move to have her retrieve it initially. As a singular act, I don't see it rising to a T-worthy level.

It wasn't singular ... setting the ball down was singular. Kicking it ... I see as T-worthy

ref3808 Mon May 06, 2013 06:55pm

My whistle is getting air when she puts her foot on the ball. She got her "break'"when I told her to retrieve the ball. She is doing that to show up the officials. I won't be an enabler for that behavior.

Maineac Mon May 06, 2013 07:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref3808 (Post 893078)
My whistle is getting air when she puts her foot on the ball. She got her "break'"when I told her to retrieve the ball. She is doing that to show up the officials. I won't be an enabler for that behavior.

I agree with this.

Toren Mon May 06, 2013 07:17pm

T when she kicks the ball. All day every day.

JetMetFan Mon May 06, 2013 08:25pm

Definite T. This falls into the category of something you don't let a player do twice.

JRutledge Mon May 06, 2013 09:20pm

The ball would keep rolling. I would not pick up the ball or stop it in any way on purpose. If anything I would just stick her and get it over with. I doubt that was the first problem I would had with her.

Peace

Adam Mon May 06, 2013 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 893068)
In this situation she should have been T'd as soon as she placed the ball on the floor. It is obvious that the new L is asking her for the ball as she does that, so go ahead and ring her up.

Personally, I think the set-down is much worse than using her foot to push the ball to the official after he tells her to get it. I didn't see it as a kick, to be honest.

If I passed on the first T, I don't see calling her for the soccer move unless there's some body language or facial expression I missed the first time I watched it.

Rich Tue May 07, 2013 01:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 893087)
Personally, I think the set-down is much worse than using her foot to push the ball to the official after he tells her to get it. I didn't see it as a kick, to be honest.

If I passed on the first T, I don't see calling her for the soccer move unless there's some body language or facial expression I missed the first time I watched it.


I could see myself using the "go get the ball" tactic. When she pushed the ball with the foot, it's whack time.

BillyMac Tue May 07, 2013 06:21am

Knuckleheads ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 893063)
That's not the appropriate or professional manner to handle this.

I see your point, but I'm always going to keep a close eye on the knuckleheads in the game. These are the players (usually football players trying to stay in shape during the winter) who are always blurring the "lines in the sand. These are the players who, very often, are involved with intentional "hard" fouls, flagrant fouls, and verbal confrontations, as well as physical fights. It's in the best interest of the officials to keep an eye on these types of players. I'm not saying to "make up" any calls, but if they do something illegal, then, by all means, don't think about passing on it.

In the case of the young lady in the video. Maybe she caught me by surprise, and maybe I passed on the technical foul the first time, but I can be sure that I won't pass on something similar again.

Let's flip this around. I've heard a philosophy to "protect the stars", that is, to pass on any some calls to keep the star players in the game. I do not agree with this philosophy.

JugglingReferee Tue May 07, 2013 07:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 893045)
Looks like he had a word with her to knock it off. I'm fine with that approach. If it's the cherry on top of a lot of bad behavior that might be enough to whack but I'd have to be there to know for sure.

This.


No need to elevate to a T if this is the first "incident" with this girl/team.

If they'd been doing nonsense before, I could see myself T'ing this, but I would work hard to prevent it. Then I may issue a direct warning to the white team while in the paint.

JugglingReferee Tue May 07, 2013 07:28am

The L says something to the girl as she walks through the key after the L picks up the ball. I'd bet twoonies to doughnuts* that it was about kicking the ball.


* doughnuts cost a dollar these days, so this phrase had to be amended ;)

HokiePaul Tue May 07, 2013 07:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 893100)
I could see myself using the "go get the ball" tactic. When she pushed the ball with the foot, it's whack time.

I agree. The setting the ball down wasn't necessarily showing up the officials -- I saw it more with frustration and not in and of itself worthy of a T.

But using her feet to push the ball back ... that is showing up the official (after being warned) and I'm giving her a T right then.

BillyMac Tue May 07, 2013 05:35pm

More On Knuckleheads ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 893060)
I would definitely be keeping an eye of #32 for the rest of the game. She's one of those knuckleheads that we keep talking about here on the Forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 893063)
That's not the appropriate or professional manner to handle this. Never allow your judgment on decisions to be influenced by anything. That compromises the integrity of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 893102)
I'm always going to keep a close eye on the knuckleheads in the game. These are the players (usually football players trying to stay in shape during the winter) who are always blurring the "lines in the sand. These are the players who, very often, are involved with intentional "hard" fouls, flagrant fouls, and verbal confrontations, as well as physical fights. It's in the best interest of the officials to keep an eye on these types of players. I'm not saying to "make up" any calls, but if they do something illegal, then, by all means, don't think about passing on it.

Remember this (below) from last year? This kid is the kind of knucklehead that's getting some extra attention from me in my game. I'm not going to make stuff up, but he's not getting a pass on anything illegal either.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K6v-bW6wxoY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

deecee Tue May 07, 2013 05:52pm

It depends. If that's the first time I'm addressing her not a T. In fact I would have gone and picked up the ball and been clear to her that next time I won't be so nice. I also won't make a big deal of the whole thing.

Asking her to pick up the ball and her pushing it to you (I mean I don't see it as a kick) then T'ing her up, eh I don't know. If you felt so disrespected, T it when you first feel that (i.e. when she put the ball down).

Also I don't think she put the ball down with attitude, she just put it down. What do you do if a team calls a TO and the player with the ball does the same?

This seems like looking for trouble if this is the first time you are addressing this player and it's with a T here. I'm in the pool with Adam on how I would look at this play as far as the T.

Nevadaref Tue May 07, 2013 05:54pm

And I still disagree with what you are advocating.

In the case of the boys game from last year, some of the individual acts depicted in the video should have been penalized with either intentional or flagrant fouls, but the officials shouldn't have been looking for anything extra to assess to those players. That isn't within our job description. We are there to enforce the rules, not to selectively penalize certain individuals because we don't like something which they did previously.
Your entire method of thinking on this is flawed.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1