Coach on court

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've still yet to have a coach-initiated conversation that changed the way I officiated or the way the coach coached.

Maybe your sample size is too small. Have more conversations or start some and see if you get better results.

Don't feed the troll!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Maybe your sample size is too small. Have more conversations or start some and see if you get better results.

Don't feed the troll!

My sample size is very broad. In season, I work for 6 different supervisors plus a 7th guy who assigns games for a small Christian college. And I go camping every off-season. And I work AAU ball every off-season. Plus my local facility is a stop on the Nike boys' EYBL circuit. So I see coaches from all over the country from various levels.

And none of those 7 guys who give me paychecks want their officials holding extended conversations with one coach during a game. And none of them want coaches out at the center circle or the free throw circles.

I've had plenty of pleasant conversations with coaches away from the court.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Thanks just doing as the Romans do here in Rome.

Seriously though if just doing the job of calling the game is the total extent of your interest and sense of responsibility that fine. I just do not like the idea that is put out that there is never situation in which coaches and officials should be having long conversations. We coach games with coaches of all age groups here, run officiating clinics for youth officials/minor officials who are also the kids we are officiating in older games, 50% or more of our officials in our association are/were also coaches at some level or work in a leadership capacity in minor basketball associations. If we aren't taking every opportunity we can to have conversations to make the game better or better understood who is?

Without getting into what ifs forever. If Coach A comes out to talk, or I'm standing by the timeout area talking, or a magic carpet becomes invovled and Coach B wants to talk too? In the million to one shot that both want to be reasonable and are strictly curious about rules then I would work it out. In any other situation I'm not sure what Coach B is thinking matters to me at that point. Not sure what your point here is??

No way. Don't pull that "someone crapped on me, so I get to crap on you" garbage. Unless you are a 7th grade girl, that's just not gonna work.

And again, I never said not to talk with Coaches. But there is a time and place for it. Out in the middle of the court during a timeout is not the time or the place.

And the other Coach - if you do decide to have that long conversation out in the middle of the court - is going to figure that you are in that coaches pocket and he is going to get screwed. Or worse, is going to want to have his own conversation at the next timeout, and the next, and the next...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Do you guys - BillyMac and JetMetFan - really do that during spring/summer league games?

Most of the time doing those games, I am working with a newer official so we use timeouts to discuss stuff ourselves. I can't remember the last time I worked a non-season/non-camp game and we went to the designated time-out positions.

When I work in the summer now it's usually at officiating camps so I'd have to say yes. Even in a spring or summer league - I'm doing my first one of those in eons this weekend - I usually try to just to avoid getting into bad habits. Worst case scenario is I'll stand in the center circle.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What's the positioning for 2-man for the last minute of halftime and in between quarters?

IAABO Mechanics (Two Person) Intermission: Referee at division line, opposite the table, with the ball. Umpire on the free throw lane line "block", opposite the table, on the side of the court where the possession arrow is pointing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I usually try to just to avoid getting into bad habits.

Bingo.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

IAABO Mechanics (Two Person) Intermission: Referee at division line, opposite the table, with the ball. Umpire on the free throw lane line "block", opposite the table, on the side of the court where the possession arrow is pointing.

What's the procedure for the 15 second warning horn?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

No way. Don't pull that "someone crapped on me, so I get to crap on you" garbage. Unless you are a 7th grade girl, that's just not gonna work.

My 7th grade daughter doesn't pull this.

My 1st grade son does, but he doesn't get away with it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What's the procedure for the 15 second warning horn?

IAABO Two Person Intermission: Each official takes a few steps toward the closest huddle and announces, "First horn", while giving the coach the finger, wait, I mean, while holding up an index finger. We don't hang around the huddle after the horn, rather, we quickly move to our throwin positions, ready for when the ball gets put into play.

[KMBReferee]

It's more about control and decorum than anything. By keeping a coach in the coaching box, it allows the official to exert control over situations that may get out of hand. It also forces the coach to show proper respect and authority to the official.

Also, I don't think it's appropriate for a coach to walk across the court for anything other than to check on an injured player. There's simply no reason for him to be there, especially to ask questions or to complain. I'm not sure if it's still the same in the NCAA, but I remember a time where any coach that walked onto the court to complain to an official got an automatic tech. That isn't a bad rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

Keeping a coach in the coaching box, it allows the official to exert control over situations ...

Control by not following the rules? The coach, by rule, doesn't have to stay in his coaching box during timeouts, he has to stay in his team's timeout bench area. Game management is important, but stay within the rules, then you'll have no problem answering the phone call from your assigner early the next morning.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

It's more about control and decorum than anything. By keeping a coach in the coaching box, it allows the official to exert control over situations that may get out of hand. It also forces the coach to show proper respect and authority to the official.

Also, I don't think it's appropriate for a coach to walk across the court for anything other than to check on an injured player. There's simply no reason for him to be there, especially to ask questions or to complain. I'm not sure if it's still the same in the NCAA, but I remember a time where any coach that walked onto the court to complain to an official got an automatic tech. That isn't a bad rule.

Anticipate the play, not the call.

If a coach hasn't caused any problems there's no reason to put on the "control and decorum" badge as soon as we see him/her start walking onto the court during a time out, especially if we're on the other side of the court. If we see him/her walking out, it won't hurt to approach them and find out what's up. As we're walking them back towards their bench saying something like, "Coach, do me a favor. If you need either of us just try to catch our eye" should solve the problem.

Should we be ready to deal with an issue? Sure but deal with it when it comes up, not before it happens.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Control by not following the rules? The coach, by rule, doesn't have to stay in his coaching box during timeouts, he has to stay in his team's timeout bench area. Game management is important, but stay within the rules, then you'll have no problem answering the phone call from your assigner early the next morning.

I disagree. It is a timeout area for timeouts. If he is not using the area to coach his team but to bark at an official, it isn't a timeout area anymore. If he's doing enough to earn a T, it doesn't really matter anyway. He can still be T'd even if he were in the coaching box.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. It is a timeout area for timeouts. If he is not using the area to coach his team but to bark at an official, it isn't a timeout area anymore. If he's doing enough to earn a T, it doesn't really matter anyway. He can still be T'd even if he were in the coaching box.

And I also disagree. Where in the rules does it say what a coach is allowed to do (we have plenty of rules that tell us what he's not allowed to do) during a timeout? Who says that he has to "coach his team"? How about a citation? And exactly what does "coach his team" mean? What if he just wants to give his players a rest? What if he just wants to give his players time to get a drink? What if he just wants to give one of his players a chance to tie his shoes? What if he just wants to get a substitute into the game? What if he has a correctable error situation and needs to approach the table? What if he just wants to walk out to the nearer free throw lane line extended and gaze into the crowd, or at the scoreboard, to calm himself down because he's pissed at his players, or pissed at the officials, and wants to cool off before he does something stupid. All of these are legal, by rule. Threaten a technical foul for any one of these and you'll have a "lot of splainin to do" if you follow through on your threat (I assume that your assigner is Ricky Ricardo).

If it's not illegal, then it's legal, and he can do anything legal that he wants to do in his team's timeout bench area.

I do agree with part of your post. If he's "bark(ing) at an official", and he's doing enough to earn a technical foul, then it doesn't really matter where he is. He can still be charged with the technical foul even if he were in the coaching box. And it's still his time out area, even if you "bang" him. He has the time out area until you throw him out of the gymnasium, and even then, his assistant still has the timeout area. I don't see how the team can lose this area? How about a citation?

This situation reminds me of some uninformed officials (not you Camron Rust) who think that they can "request" a coach to "sit down" without the prerequisite technical foul. Sure, we could do this thirty years ago, with the old seatbelt rule, but not anymore. To make him sit, you have to "bang" him first, and then he sits.