Coach on court

[Blindolbat]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If I am on that game, I am stopping you from coming out towards me/us. I will come over to you briefly...the problem with letting you come out there and have a mini-conference with me/us is simple - what does it look like to the other coach? Would you want me to be doing that with your opponent?

Happened to me and my partner. During halftime, coach is walking towards us but we thought he was walking over to talk to a parent/fan/AD that we might have been near. He stops right in front of us and starts into us about something. Not very animated or overly angry. As soon as we realize his purpose we send him right back and tell him this was inappropriate behavior. I don't tolerate that during timeouts, halftimes, etc.

[Pantherdreams]

Now this might get back to a theme from a different thread about the minority getting the majority treatment but . . .

If coaches want to communicate with officials and understanding communications have to happen in a timely and appropriate manner, there are no really significant opportunities during the playing of the game to have a protracted conversation about rules confusion, situations, and just general inquiry. During the momentary pauses in play coaches basically get a comment or question. I get a response in and if they aren't happy they get a parting comment that ends up registered for later, gets ignored or if negative gets them a stop sign/T. Thats really it.

Timeouts and halftime or post game seem like the only times to me where any sort of protracted conversation/ explanation can go on. I'm not saying coaches get to run over everyone, or chase us around the building bitching and demanding answers but if you are going to have a positive conversation and interaction that genuinely improves the situation/understanding level/ or quality of the game. When else is going to take place?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The Coach has the right to be in the time-out area...the time-out area is the area where he talks to his players. That doesn't mean that if the rest of the team is over by the bench, he gets to come all the way to the free throw lane to "talk" to me. I'm not on his team and am not part of his time-out.

Now, if he is asking a legitimate question, I will quite often go over there and talk with him. Or just wait until the first horn sounds when I have to go over there anyway.

But that rule does not give the Coach permission to come that far out there to talk to the officials.

Now that we have clarification from the coach himself I'll stick with my answer: I'm not threatening him with a T especially if he isn't being belligerent or hasn't been a PiTA during the game. All that does is create an adversarial situation where there hasn't been one up to that point. I'll politely suggest he go back and then I'll walk over and handle things. I'll also probably have an AC from the other team come over so they don't feel as though anyone is gaining an advantage.

All this changes if he's been a problem child during the game.

[Raymond]

I'm not threatening him with a T. Thought would never come in my mind. But I'm also immediately stopping him by walking towards him and asking him to return to his bench area. That gives him a short window with which to ask me his question.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

there are no really significant opportunities during the playing of the game to have a protracted conversation about rules confusion, situations, and just general inquiry.

Exactly. And there shouldn't be.

Timeouts and halftime or post game seem like the only times to me where any sort of protracted conversation/ explanation can go on. I'm not saying coaches get to run over everyone, or chase us around the building bitching and demanding answers but if you are going to have a positive conversation and interaction that genuinely improves the situation/understanding level/ or quality of the game. When else is going to take place?

You proceed from the erroneous assumption that it's the referee's job to hold a rules clinic for the coach and teach him the game. There should never be ANY sort of "protracted conversation / explanation" between referee and coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Exactly. And there shouldn't be.

You proceed from the erroneous assumption that it's the referee's job to hold a rules clinic for the coach and teach him the game. There should never be ANY sort of "protracted conversation / explanation" between referee and coach.

True, but if I will rarely refuse to answer a question if approached politely. There is either more to the OP than we have here, or (just as likely) at least one of the officials was relatively new and not ready to really talk to coaches.

It's also possible they knew they kicked the call and really didn't want to own up to it.

Then again....

There are a lot of possibilities here, I guess, so I'll stop rambling now.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Now that we have clarification from the coach himself I'll stick with my answer: I'm not threatening him with a T especially if he isn't being belligerent or hasn't been a PiTA during the game. All that does is create an adversarial situation where there hasn't been one up to that point. I'll politely suggest he go back and then I'll walk over and handle things. I'll also probably have an AC from the other team come over so they don't feel as though anyone is gaining an advantage.

All this changes if he's been a problem child during the game.

+1 on this all the way.

Looks like I'm in the minority here, but if a coach wants to use his timeout to talk to me, as long as it's in a respectful way, I'm happy to oblige. He's got assistant coaches that can take care of his team during that time. There's no need for us to create an adverserial situation where there doesn't need to be one.

I'm not even really going to tell him to get back to his timeout area before I'll talk to him. I'll probably meet him somewhere in the middle once I see him approaching me, and then walk him back to the bench area as we talk.

Attitude of the coach plays a big part in this, but again, if it's respectful, why not give him a little courtesy?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

...
I'm not even really going to tell him to get back to his timeout area before I'll talk to him. I'll probably meet him somewhere in the middle once I see him approaching me, and then walk him back to the bench area as we talk.

Attitude of the coach plays a big part in this, but again, if it's respectful, why not give him a little courtesy?

I have supervisors who will jump deep in my a$$ if I let a coach come way out on to the court to talk to us during a time-out. They want coaches staying in the bench area.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

+1 on this all the way.

Looks like I'm in the minority here, but if a coach wants to use his timeout to talk to me, as long as it's in a respectful way, I'm happy to oblige. He's got assistant coaches that can take care of his team during that time. There's no need for us to create an adverserial situation where there doesn't need to be one.

I'm not even really going to tell him to get back to his timeout area before I'll talk to him. I'll probably meet him somewhere in the middle once I see him approaching me, and then walk him back to the bench area as we talk.

Attitude of the coach plays a big part in this, but again, if it's respectful, why not give him a little courtesy?

Awesome... and then the rest of us get to deal with, "But the last ref we had let us do it."

[rockyroad]

I am wondering who it was (other than the officials in the OP's game) who said they would not talk with the Coach. I will certainly talk with him/her - just NOT in the middle of the freaking floor.

So all this garbage about not talking to the coach is exactly that - garbage.

[JRutledge]

And if you talk to the coach in the middle of the court, the other coach is going to be upset when you do not talk to them in the same manner. I just do not see the benefit.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Exactly. And there shouldn't be.

You proceed from the erroneous assumption that it's the referee's job to hold a rules clinic for the coach and teach him the game. There should never be ANY sort of "protracted conversation / explanation" between referee and coach.

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Disagree. If your situation, level of interest, reasons for being involved with the game grant you the freedom and option to simply be the guy who shows up and calls the game I don't take umbrage with that. I just don't think that is the case for all officials.

In large urban areas there may be such a pool of officials, and so many basketball teams/schools/clubs/ players that each just plays their part and things role on basically working well. In rural areas or communities developing or trying to grow their basketball/sport programming and quality; officials, coaches, players, parents, clubs/schools are all stakeholders. For it grow and improve stakeholders need to work together for positive growth. You can only move if everyone is rowing in at least a similar direction.

If I've got coaches, clubs, etc that want to do the right things by their kids and by the sport there is almost never a bad time to have a conversation that gets everyone on the same page moving forward. If a protracted conversation helps the game or next game, if it lets a coach get clarification that can change their understanding or teaching of the game, if a young coach/player can benefit from a conversation and these don't interfere with the flow/management of the game why not?

Different strokes for different folks. Round these here parts unless you a university coach you are a volunteer and as an official I'm not being paid enough for it to be just about the paycheck.

I can appreciate your perspective. I will say that here, in a mid-sized metro area, there are quite a few summer coaches who I'm starting to see regularly enough to be recognized. For the most part, if anyone asks a question, it'll get answered. Quickly, though. It won't take more than just a few seconds. Anything longer than that and it's turning into either a rules clinic or a debate; I'm not doing either of those in a game.

I have been known to give a prolonged explanation post-game, but only rarely and only when approached with the appropriate demeanor.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

As I said, I don't disagree about time and place. However, any official threatening a technical foul right away is not exhibiting good communication. The official could have handled the situation better than that.

You are flat out wrong on that point.
For many actions the prescribed recourse is a technical foul. So why shouldn't an official let the coach know that is the penalty which he is facing if he chooses to engage in such? Seems perfectly logical to me. Seems like correct communication, too.

You must be an ex-coach (or perhaps even a current one). Coaches never want the penalty to be applied to them.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Blindolbat

Happened to me and my partner. During halftime, coach is walking towards us but we thought he was walking over to talk to a parent/fan/AD that we might have been near. He stops right in front of us and starts into us about something. Not very animated or overly angry. As soon as we realize his purpose we send him right back and tell him this was inappropriate behavior. I don't tolerate that during timeouts, halftimes, etc.

And since you didn't penalize him by properly assessing a technical foul, he will do the same thing again to you or another crew. You missed a golden opportunity to take corrective action for the good of all officials in your area.