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-   -   Rutgers fires basketball coach after release of video showing player abuse, gay slurs (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94672-rutgers-fires-basketball-coach-after-release-video-showing-player-abuse-gay-slurs.html)

Judtech Thu Apr 04, 2013 03:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad (Post 889158)
LOL ... Good idea. He should consider changing his last name to O'Doyle.
If you can catch a wrench, you can catch a ball....

Adam Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 889121)
There is a big difference between the perception of Knight and the reality. Coaches at every level in IN thought that running up and down the sidelines and yelling at players and officials was how Knight coached. They never saw the part about teaching and the fact that he was more sarcastic then mean was lost on a lot of people. I can only speak of personal experience and coaches who 'got it' were great
While he had the least amount of technicals every year at IU, the ones he did get were usually spectacular. (My personal favorite was walking down the court and around the official, Ted V, who tossed him).
As for the video tape and the alleged choking, I have to laugh every time I see it.
Completely off topic to Rice.
Sarcasm, depending on when it's used, is indistinguishable from meanness. In Knight's case, well, let's just say it seems everything looked like a nail to him.

He was a brilliant coach, but also a bully. Entertaining, but still.

JRutledge Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad (Post 889159)
Who knows? Will see what happens ... you could be right and maybe he will never coach again.
I did not say he would never coach again. I just do not see it at the college ranks for a rather significant period of time. I think he could work pro ball on some level as they might feel dealing with adults is a better option than kids that are a little more vulnerable. Either way I do not think he will be a head coach for next season. This is so bad they are trying to get rid of the AD and President for their role in not penalizing this. That does not happen even in situations where NCAA violations have been clearly violated.

Peace

JRutledge Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 889166)
Sarcasm, depending on when it's used, is indistinguishable from meanness. In Knight's case, well, let's just say it seems everything looked like a nail to him.

He was a brilliant coach, but also a bully. Entertaining, but still.
I think most coaches before the last 20 years were bullies on some level.

Peace

Bad Zebra Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 889170)
I think most coaches before the last 20 years were bullies on some level.

Peace
Dean Smith, Jim Valvano, Lou Carnasecca? I can't fathom those guys being bullies. Unless you're right and they were good at keeping a clean public personna....but if they were bullies, stories would leak out by now. I just don't ever recall hearing about them.

Judtech Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 889172)
Dean Smith, Jim Valvano, Lou Carnasecca? I can't fathom those guys being bullies. Unless you're right and they were good at keeping a clean public personna....but if they were bullies, stories would leak out by now. I just don't ever recall hearing about them.
Everyone knows John Wooden was the biggest bully of them all!:D

JRutledge Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 889172)
Dean Smith, Jim Valvano, Lou Carnasecca? I can't fathom those guys being bullies. Unless you're right and they were good at keeping a clean public personna....but if they were bullies, stories would leak out by now. I just don't ever recall hearing about them.
There are a lot of ways to be a bully. At least if you intimidate someone under today's standards you are a bully. And I doubt players of those coaches were not somewhat afraid of them on some level.

Peace

Adam Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 889175)
There are a lot of ways to be a bully. At least if you intimidate someone under today's standards you are a bully. And I doubt players of those coaches were not somewhat afraid of them on some level.

Peace
I'm not talking about the coach-player interaction. Although that's part of it, I'm more talking about, for example, the way Knight interacted with people off the team. Wasn't the final straw at IU the kid who baited him, and he took the bait big time. The way he treated reporters is another.

He wasn't just intimidating by nature, he actively intimidated people. To me, that's different than simply intimidating someone due to your stature (either physical or otherwise).

JRutledge Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 889176)
I'm not talking about the coach-player interaction. Although that's part of it, I'm more talking about, for example, the way Knight interacted with people off the team. Wasn't the final straw at IU the kid who baited him, and he took the bait big time. The way he treated reporters is another.

He wasn't just intimidating by nature, he actively intimidated people. To me, that's different than simply intimidating someone due to your stature (either physical or otherwise).
If that is the case Wooden needs to go on that list near the top. It has been said he would say all kinds of things to officials with his little "program." And I doubt any of these top coaches were not revered and were not without big egos and probably did not allow certain things to happen with people not directly on the basketball teams. Again I think we need to stop fooling ourselves and act like Knight was the only major college coach that intimidated people and bullied them to get what they want on some level. We just do not have the social media to tell on them like we do now.

Judtech Thu Apr 04, 2013 04:53pm
Gene Keady intimidated more then Bob Knight!:D

JRutledge Thu Apr 04, 2013 05:06pm
Now ESPN is showing the assistant coach Jimmy Martelli (son of Phil who is coach of St. Joesph) as doing much of the same things as Rice. Throwing basketballs, getting in player's faces and pushing players around. This is bad on so many levels. Apparently the players called Martelli, "Baby Rice." This is bad, just bad.

Peace

VaTerp Thu Apr 04, 2013 05:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad (Post 889157)
It's comparable because he's getting physical with his players. The player is walking down the court and he puts his hands on him enough where it shoves the player's head back.

Is it worse? Not even close.
It's comparable in nature but not in extent IMO.


Quote:
This is so completely true and relevant to officiating!! Usually four views of what is happening on the court at any time: Home coach, Visiting coach, Official, and what really happened! :)
Indeed. Any thread here with video is a testament to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad (Post 889151)
100% will coach again.

If he is out all of next season I will be shocked. At the very least a D2 or lower level college will pick him up, but I would not be surprised to see him at a D1 school.
I will be SHOCKED if he is on a D1 staff next year and highly doubt he coaches anywhere next season. With all of the media scrutiny today I just don't see how a HC and/or an AD could sign off on bringing Rice in next season and justify it to the administration and others. I'd bet money that he is out of college coaching for at least a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 889180)
Now ESPN is showing the assistant coach Jimmy Martelli (son of Phil who is coach of St. Joesph) as doing much of the same things as Rice. Throwing basketballs, getting in player's faces and pushing players around. This is bad on so many levels. Apparently the players called Martelli, "Baby Rice." This is bad, just bad.

Peace
This just adds fuel to the fire. I wish Mike the best and I'm sure he'll land on his feet but just don't see him on a NCAA bench for at least a year.

Adam Thu Apr 04, 2013 06:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 889177)
If that is the case Wooden needs to go on that list near the top. It has been said he would say all kinds of things to officials with his little "program." And I doubt any of these top coaches were not revered and were not without big egos and probably did not allow certain things to happen with people not directly on the basketball teams. Again I think we need to stop fooling ourselves and act like Knight was the only major college coach that intimidated people and bullied them to get what they want on some level. We just do not have the social media to tell on them like we do now.
And coach K, too. I've heard that about Wooden, too, and to me, it speaks poorly of his overall character. How you treat those who society feels it's ok to marginalize is a mark of character. Wooden was a great coach, teacher, and mentor, but he had his flaws. This was one, IMO. But it goes more to the feeling that coaches need to somehow "work" the refs to be effective.

Knight was different in that he seemed to be unable to control his disdain for people. Didn't he throw a flower pot at a secretary once?

VaTerp Thu Apr 04, 2013 06:20pm
Two Rutgers players defend fired coach Mike Rice - ESPN

icallfouls Thu Apr 04, 2013 06:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 889180)
Now ESPN is showing the assistant coach Jimmy Martelli (son of Phil who is coach of St. Joesph) as doing much of the same things as Rice. Throwing basketballs, getting in player's faces and pushing players around. This is bad on so many levels. Apparently the players called Martelli, "Baby Rice." This is bad, just bad.

Peace
Leads me to believe that this was a systematic teaching approach by the coaching staff


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