Rutgers fires basketball coach after release of video showing player abuse, gay slurs
 

PISCATAWAY, N.J. — Rutgers fired basketball coach Mike Rice on Wednesday after a videotape aired showing him shoving, grabbing and throwing balls at players in practice and using gay slurs.

Rest of article here: Rutgers fires basketball coach Rice after release of video showing player abuse, gay slurs

Also... Separated at birth?

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Yea, he wasn't going to last the day after the media rolled with it. However what is more disturbing to me is the AD saw this in November and suspended Rice for 3 games and fined him $50,000. Now he fires him after it goes public. If the video isn't released, Rice is still coaching.

I'm guessing the AD is going to get some heat for the decision he made the first time. Based on his interviews it sounds like he consulted with some other university decision-makers before settling on a suspension and fine.

Lots of people squirming in their seats in NJ...
 

Not to mention, the governor of NJ is weighing in and is demanding answers about the whole administration and decision making process at the school. I have a feeling Rice won't be the last person to be shown the door at Rutgers.

off topic...this is an officiating site, not a coaches gone crazy during practice site :)

Administrators can do what they want right? :D

Peace

that's what I have heard :)

I'm not so sure it's not all basketball related. I think we can take the Mulkey and Rush thread, mix in some Geno Auriema posts...combine it with this one...and create a BASKETBALL PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS thread.

LOL ... Sometimes I like to play a game I call, "Test the Mods" ... just to see if any of them dare!

First of all, +100 points for using "weighing in" ... +500 if you didn't even mean to :)

Maybe he will go to the school himself to investigate ... they'll know it's him because of his fleece.

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Mea culpa video from WABC-TV....
 

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I swear that fleece looks like something you'd buy at one of those crappy "personalize your stuff" stores.

What a great clip. It's unscripted, uncut and obviously from the heart.

It's rare that the public gets to see this type of genuine apology from a public figure like this.

Best wishes to him as he puts his life and career back together. He'll be a better husband, father and coach for having walked down this pathway with such honesty and accountability.

I want one that says "moderator"

I'm going to assume this is not sarcasm.

I had a chance to get to know Rice a little bit during my coaching days when I worked several Eastern Invitational camps when Rice was the director there. He's also a friend of the guy whose staff I was on.

He can be really fun to have a few beers with and hang around for a while and there seems to be a decent guy in there somewhere but I am not all that surprised to see him lose control and let his intensity get the best of him.

He is one of those people that is just always "on." Every other word out of his mouth is a F bomb. It's how he talks to everybody.

All that said, the behavior on tape is just inexcusable at any level. He definitely has some issues that need professional help/attention. I hope he's getting it.

Unfortunately, I don't see how any school can hire him ANY time soon with this tape out there. I hope he can stay connected to the game b/c he does have a true passion for basketball and really knows the game. But this tape is going to hang over his head for the rest of his life....

You assumed correctly.

Cool. I thought so but you never know these days.

And I agree with you 100% and wish Rice the best.

Oh, me too! Brad?........

At least he came out publicly and owned up to the behavior. I disagree...I think somebody somewhere will hire him....Texas Tech took Bobby Knight despite the carnage he left behind at Indiana. Heck, now he's making Applebees commercials and working at ESPN. Not bad for a coach who was the poster boy for inappropriate behavior.

Chances are Rice's behavior will be exemplary at his next gig.

I would not compare Bobby Knight to Rice on any level For one Knight was only accused of one incident and acted like most coaches at the time. And most of all Knight won 3 titles. Rice cannot even win the Big East Conference Title and is seen in multiple situations throwing stuff at players and hitting them in the head with a basketball. Also it does not help that he called them gay slurs. Not even close.

Peace

I'm certain this guy is more sorry for losing his job -- and potentially his career -- than for what he did.

You don't reach that level of coaching without being told you need to work on your behavior. And, if the behavior is as extreme as Rice's, I'm sure he's been told over and over and over again. For whatever reasons, be it his continued employment or career ascension, he chose not to heed those warnings.

Bottom line: Look where it got him.

Throwing chairs......kicking his son (a player)...throwing flower pots and cursing at and around secretaries...grabbing students and putting them in headlocks...to name a FEW that were made public.

A few titles will get you some leeway but let's not pretend he wasn't a total jerk the same as Rice. I don't buy that any/all other coaches acted like that at the time. I see Rice and Knight's behavior as equally egregious. And further...Knight never offered even the slightest appearance of remorse. Yeah. It is close.

All I'm saying is: If Knight managed to survive, my bet is that Rice will too.

Right or wrong, it was stated that he did not kick his son. I think people wanted to go there because of what they felt of Knight. There were no cases of what Rice did on tape of numerous incidents and they did tape practices at Indiana. Now maybe Knight was not in the same era and things were taped or social media was prevalent. But it does not even come close. Let us not exaggerate what took place in the Knight era. I saw most games where Knight hardly got upset and we act like other coaches were saints.

And most of all I did not say Rice would not ever coach again. Just remember Knight did not sit out a year and he brought a lot of positive attention to Texas Tech. Rice would bring questions and his lack of success as a coach would be a factor. They are not the same thing if for no other reason their winning. If he was always in the Final Four then maybe he would land a job immediately. But I remember Larry Eustachy got in trouble at Iowa State and all that man did was drink at a college party and admitted to being an alchoholic. It took him some time to get a D1 job so I am not so sure Rice rebounds without years of sitting on someone else's bench.

Peace

Bwaaaahaaaaa! Good one! Funniest thing I've read all year.

Let's Go To The Videotape (Warner Wolf) ...
 

Fine... but let's not minimize it to the point of absurdity either. Your opinion of what Knight did is the biggest batch of nonsensical revisionist history I've ever read.

One physical incident. If we are so up in arms about Knight, we sure give a lot of coaches a lot of passes. And nothing that people accused Knight of were even on the plane with the levels of Rice. Sorry, not the same thing at all. We act like we have never seen a coach curse at anyone or call their players names. Some more than others for sure, but this is not on the level what Rice did. I cannot ever think of a time Knight threw a ball at a player's head or called them a "fag." Sorry, not the same thing.

Peace

And your point of even bringing Knight into this discussion (or anyone else for that matter) is rather lazy and insignificant. Just like the situation with the coach that was playing at Kentucky and the coach at California were not the same as this situation at Rutgers.

Peace

I guess once you bring out the revisionist history guns it's hard to put them away... but wth are you talking about? When did I make any point of bringing Knight (or anyone else for that matter) into this discussion???!!!?!?!

Luckily this one is right there in print for you to check.

The Pride Of Connecticut, My Taxes Paid His Salary ...
 

VaTerp: Why are you talking about Jim Calhoun? He's retired. Wait? I'm being told that VaTerp is actually talking about Mike Rice. Never mind.

Can you follow? I am not talking about you specifically. When someone makes a comment it is not necessarily about you. Actually the comment you quoted was not from anything you said when I first mentioned Knight.

My original comments were to Bad Zebra, not you about the reference to Knight. I responded to you after you chimed in on my comments, which I am OK with. I just was not responding or commenting to your comments. It is not that hard man.

Peace

And that comes across as so fair to everyone else on the site. Way to be classy and not abusive of your personal status on the site. :rolleyes:

Don't forget me!
 

Sorry … I was supposed to come across as a JOKE because that is what it was.

If you want a serious reply, I don't think the mods would have deleted this as being off topic. It's not directly related to basketball officiating, but it is marginally so — it goes to show the mentality and behavior of some coaches … gives an inside look at how they operate, which can help you understand their me two attitude.

I have heard ZERO complaints since the mods have been handling things on the board. If someone has a beef, feel free to email me — [email protected] (email is much faster than PM)

Our goal is to keep this board enjoyable and useful for all … if anyone thinks we aren't achieving that please let me know.

Bobby Knight has made plenty of inappropriate comments. One that comes to mind is one he made when being interviewed by Connie Chung. He was talking about some perceived bad calls made by officials and he said, ""I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." Women's groups were outraged. If he said that on a national telecast that he knew that everyone would see, I can only imagine what he said off camera. I think that if Bobby Knight's Indiana career had been when everyone had a video camera on their phone, we would have seen similar footage to the Rutgers incident. And who cares how many wins he had...... that is completely irrelevant to this topic about how kids are treated.

It matters how many wins he has because there was a comparison with Rice and Knight. There is no comparison.

Making inappropriate comments in an interview still has nothing to do with what you called your kids and whether you throw a ball at the head of your players while in practice in this day and age. I do not care what women's groups were outraged by as Black groups were outraged by things Rupp said or other coaches that would not allow players that did not look like them. Those are not the same things as it relates to why Rice was fired.

I am very sure that coaches from the 70s, 80s and early 90s did and said a lot of things to players, in interviews and in their positions as a head coach they would never be allowed to do today. Not sure that is a good thing, but it is what it is.

Peace

I wonder if there is a forum where Knight and Rice are bickering back and forth about the official who has the worst behavior the way you guys are arguing about them right now. Ridiculous.

Nice contribution. :rolleyes:

There is very much of a comparison. They were both bullies who used intimidation and ridicule as tools to motivate. Rice seems contrite. Knight is proud of his history of bullying.

Thank you for being a fan of the Official Forum.

Just trying to add a little humor. The world needs to laugh more. Especially North Korea.

Welcome to the 20th Century. That was the way coaches did things for years at many levels and many did so that many would love show respect for. That is what coaches did for a long time because they were the law and had little resistance to what they did on campuses. And even those guys we try to hold in high regard were that way, they just did not wear their actions or rant and rave in public.

Peace

:)

This is where I tend to agree...my first thought as I was reading about Rice's antics: This guy sounds and acts a lot like Bobby Knight. That's why I made the statement that I thought Rice would eventually land somewhere in coaching. Maybe not as quick as Knight, but eventually.

Here's where pedigree takes over. Knight had three national titles and an Olympic gold medal when he got canned. Rice hasn't gotten out of the first round of the NCAA or NIT. Rice's best chance would be as someone's assistant for a while. It would be hard for even a D-2 or D-3 program to hire him as its head coach.

Have we heard from Kelvin Sampson lately? And Sampson who coached Indiana after Mike Davis left the program, who replaced Knight only committed NCAA recruiting violations. And Sampson was accused of making extra phone calls and texts mostly. Sampson is now an assistant coach for the Houston Rockets and has not been to the college ranks at all since what happened at Indiana. So Rice might work again, but I doubt he will seriously work at a college job for some time. And not with all the stories coming out and negative PR that a school would get for employing a coach that multple times was physically abusing players on video tape. And this is why comparing Knight is silly, because Knight was not accused of many things on tape and in practice. People had to go over a long time to even show where Knight would act up and he won consistently. So Knight got a job because he was a winner, Rice is not. Even Sampson was a winner and where is he now?

Peace

It had to be done. Sad situation for my Alma Mater. If he was winning, I wonder if he would have any supporters.

And this is basically what I have been saying.

Peace

Bad analogy - that was not Sampsons 1st chance. Indiana was his 2nd chance after similarly screwing up at Oklahoma. He got his school 3 years probation, and got canned, but was given another opportunity at Indiana. He screwed up there (twice, actually - once with more phone calls, another with recruiting Gordon) and got canned again.

Wondering where he is now is more like wondering about Knight post-TTech, or about Mike Leach after he screws up at his new place.

The difference with Knight is that there wasn't a camera given out in every box of cereal back then to film every move he made. If someone did bring a camera around Knight, it was typically the size of a shoe box or bigger and it was easily seen. Now, cameras can be practically unnoticeable.

Mike Leach? I thought it had since come out that a lot of the accusations in that case were fabricated or grossly exaggerated....and that it was largely a spat between Leach and Craig James over playing time for James' son....and it is looking like Craig James is really the guilty party in that one.

And is there any doubt he would have been fired even sooner had the technology existed back then?

JRut's contention is that Knight's tactics were common among top college programs. Not sure I want to believe that. Maybe I'm delusional but I want to believe Boeheim, Williams, Pitino, Cady, Calhoun, Valvano, Smith, Coach K and other winners were tough and used pretty foul language at times...but didn't physically and mentally abuse their players as a rule.

Bingo!

While this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn I think many people are missing this point.

We can go back and forth all year giving our opinions on Knight's behavior vs Rice's, on what Knight's practice tapes would have shown had there been more cameras in his era, etc. Most of that is conjecture.

The facts are that by the time an actual tape of Knight's misconduct in practice got out there he ALREADY had 3 national titles, a gold medal, 30 years of experience, and numerous former players who would go to bat for him. Mike Rice has NOWHERE close to that resume. NOWHERE CLOSE! AND the tape of his actions is much longer and much worse than any actual tape of Knights in terms of abuse toward players.

So this all started when I said I don't see how any school could hire Rice any time soon. And someone disagreed citing Bob Knight. For the purposes of that convo, I think that's an entirely misguided comparison.

Yes, but that's immaterial. He was fired for all that went on, whether you believe his side or Craig James's kid's side. He has since found a new job.

If he were to get fired again for abusing his players - he would be in line with an analogy about Kelvin Sampson - and increasingly unlikely to find another gig.

You would be wrong on a few levels about my opinion. I did not say it was common, I said that many coaches did things that we find objectionable now in Knight at that time. The difference we did not have 24 hours SportsCenter and social media and YouTube. And you mentioned Coach K who played under Knight and has a different off-court persona that Knight never tried to have. Coach K in many circles is seen as a dick to officials at least and uses very over the top language in many cases (He is after all a Polish kid from a tough part of Chicago, so not a choir boy that went to West Point where he played for Knight). Knight did not interview well and did not care and still does not care on many levels if you see him in recent interviews. And even some of the coaches you mentioned are much younger than Knight. They were not Rupp or Glenn Haskins or other old-timers where Knight learned a lot of stuff from or during his original era. I am not sure Rupp would survive if we had social media and heard his comments about race and other issues in this era. You really think coaches did not call a player a "fag" or other socially insensitive words back then? Rice is getting ripped for just his words, but his actions are so over the top hardly anyone is even talking about those things.

You notice you never see these coaches today with a mic at the college level on during games like you see in the NBA and conversations are not allowed in private moments. Coaches have the opportunity to shape their image if they do the right things. But players that played for Knight love the man just like some of those other coaches. Because even the stuff brought up about Knight were not all on-court issues or stuff done directly in his job. But yes I believe if Knight threw a chair today they would be in big trouble today for sure, but not necessarily for the other things people are upset by after that IMO.

Right now they are talking about how they do not see Rice working again anytime soon at the D2 or D3 levels as well because of the way he acted in practice when not everyone tapes practices and other times they are not around a camera. In my opinion Rice will be very similar to what Dave Bliss is going through for some time.

Peace

And before and after that incident in practice, Knight had people attend his practices. And there was dispute over what happened on the tape. Even players that were gone did not take up for the kid Knight was accused of assaulting. This tape of Rice is continuous, several actions of throwing the ball at players and grabbing players. That is why I cannot equate this situation to really anyone but Rice and his opportunity to get another job.

Peace

Sampson is in the NBA. Assistant with the Rockets.

And has yet to work on any college campus since his firing at Indiana.

Peace

There is a big difference between the perception of Knight and the reality. Coaches at every level in IN thought that running up and down the sidelines and yelling at players and officials was how Knight coached. They never saw the part about teaching and the fact that he was more sarcastic then mean was lost on a lot of people. I can only speak of personal experience and coaches who 'got it' were great
While he had the least amount of technicals every year at IU, the ones he did get were usually spectacular. (My personal favorite was walking down the court and around the official, Ted V, who tossed him).
As for the video tape and the alleged choking, I have to laugh every time I see it.
Completely off topic to Rice.

And what exactly is funny about it to you? I wonder if it was funny to Neil Reed's parents. Personally, I find choking to be worse than throwing a ball at a kid.

I know that... that's where we started when his name came up.

More like he was fired for what one high profile individual claimed went on and trumpeted from his position at ESPN. The accuracy of those claims has certainly become suspect at a minimum, appearing to be nothing more than a grudge.

Considering he didn't actually choke the kid, I find it funny people think he did.

What an odd statement.

Anyone who thinks that the tape of Knight is even comparable, let alone worse, than the tape on Rice.......I just don't know what to say.

Amazing how people can see the same things yet have such different views.

I wonder if there are any openings for a Dodge Ball coach. Rice appears qualified.

100% will coach again.

If he is out all of next season I will be shocked. At the very least a D2 or lower level college will pick him up, but I would not be surprised to see him at a D1 school.

Then why have the other two examples never worked in college pretty much since there incidents? What Rice did is by far worse.

Peace

It was.

Having a high graduation rate, caring about the players, and whatever other good things you do doesn't excuse bad behavior though.

He put his hands on one of his players —*grabbing him by the throat.

Seems completely on topic, regardless of whether or not you find the video amusing.

Has there been any speculation about substance abuse? Something seems off with this guy in interviews etc. like a chipmunk on pixie stix

It's comparable because he's getting physical with his players. The player is walking down the court and he puts his hands on him enough where it shoves the player's head back.

Is it worse? Not even close.

This is so completely true and relevant to officiating!! Usually four views of what is happening on the court at any time: Home coach, Visiting coach, Official, and what really happened! :)

LOL ... Good idea. He should consider changing his last name to O'Doyle.

Who knows? Will see what happens ... you could be right and maybe he will never coach again.

The biggest tragedy of this entire thing is the number of athletes —*even high school — that I saw tweeting and commenting about Rice's behavior saying that it wasn't a big deal or wasn't so bad.

Didn't grab him by the throat. Put his hand on his chest and moved him backwards. Watch the video tape again. They were practicing against a 1/2 court trap and the player got in front of the ball. A big No No. Knight walked up too him put his hand on his chest and moved him back to proper position.
Look, coaches put their hands on players. It's nearly impossible not to. What Rice did was unacceptable. What Knight did was common.

If you can catch a wrench, you can catch a ball....

Sarcasm, depending on when it's used, is indistinguishable from meanness. In Knight's case, well, let's just say it seems everything looked like a nail to him.

He was a brilliant coach, but also a bully. Entertaining, but still.

I did not say he would never coach again. I just do not see it at the college ranks for a rather significant period of time. I think he could work pro ball on some level as they might feel dealing with adults is a better option than kids that are a little more vulnerable. Either way I do not think he will be a head coach for next season. This is so bad they are trying to get rid of the AD and President for their role in not penalizing this. That does not happen even in situations where NCAA violations have been clearly violated.

Peace

I think most coaches before the last 20 years were bullies on some level.

Peace

Dean Smith, Jim Valvano, Lou Carnasecca? I can't fathom those guys being bullies. Unless you're right and they were good at keeping a clean public personna....but if they were bullies, stories would leak out by now. I just don't ever recall hearing about them.

Everyone knows John Wooden was the biggest bully of them all!:D

There are a lot of ways to be a bully. At least if you intimidate someone under today's standards you are a bully. And I doubt players of those coaches were not somewhat afraid of them on some level.

Peace

I'm not talking about the coach-player interaction. Although that's part of it, I'm more talking about, for example, the way Knight interacted with people off the team. Wasn't the final straw at IU the kid who baited him, and he took the bait big time. The way he treated reporters is another.

He wasn't just intimidating by nature, he actively intimidated people. To me, that's different than simply intimidating someone due to your stature (either physical or otherwise).

If that is the case Wooden needs to go on that list near the top. It has been said he would say all kinds of things to officials with his little "program." And I doubt any of these top coaches were not revered and were not without big egos and probably did not allow certain things to happen with people not directly on the basketball teams. Again I think we need to stop fooling ourselves and act like Knight was the only major college coach that intimidated people and bullied them to get what they want on some level. We just do not have the social media to tell on them like we do now.

Gene Keady intimidated more then Bob Knight!:D

Now ESPN is showing the assistant coach Jimmy Martelli (son of Phil who is coach of St. Joesph) as doing much of the same things as Rice. Throwing basketballs, getting in player's faces and pushing players around. This is bad on so many levels. Apparently the players called Martelli, "Baby Rice." This is bad, just bad.

Peace

It's comparable in nature but not in extent IMO.


Indeed. Any thread here with video is a testament to that.

I will be SHOCKED if he is on a D1 staff next year and highly doubt he coaches anywhere next season. With all of the media scrutiny today I just don't see how a HC and/or an AD could sign off on bringing Rice in next season and justify it to the administration and others. I'd bet money that he is out of college coaching for at least a year.

This just adds fuel to the fire. I wish Mike the best and I'm sure he'll land on his feet but just don't see him on a NCAA bench for at least a year.

And coach K, too. I've heard that about Wooden, too, and to me, it speaks poorly of his overall character. How you treat those who society feels it's ok to marginalize is a mark of character. Wooden was a great coach, teacher, and mentor, but he had his flaws. This was one, IMO. But it goes more to the feeling that coaches need to somehow "work" the refs to be effective.

Knight was different in that he seemed to be unable to control his disdain for people. Didn't he throw a flower pot at a secretary once?

Leads me to believe that this was a systematic teaching approach by the coaching staff

People claimed a lot of things of Knight so I would not be surprised if people believe something like that happened.

I just know we had an official that recently died in my area that worked a Final Four and a Rose Bowl. I guess he had Wooden and UCLA a few times and he would tell that story often about the behavior of Wooden. So at least that part I heard from someone that dealt with Wooden directly and I heard that from others that were not the official I just mentioned.

Peace

Or a fanboy forum where both coaches and officials are cannon fodder?

Interesting how if you go to the 2:10 point of the video, you see him fire a ball at a player, and some guy standing right beside him hands him another one. Was that this guy's job? Just wondering.

Two examples is hardly enough to establish a pattern of causality. Maybe they had other options that were more compelling.

Usually when a job comes up people start throwing around names. I have never heard their names thrown around. And I cannot imagine that they could not get paid more money as a head coach at the D1 level than an assistant on a pro staff. Not many NBA Staff members make a million dollars and their job is more unstable.

Peace

I don't think that will help ... might be the worst video on YouTube ... looks like I'm watching on an old Sylvania TV/VCR combo I bought at a garage sale.

Probably more a case of emulating what your boss does because you think it is right / you want to impress.

Well, if you are in charge of handing him the balls, you rarely get them thrown at you! :)

Self-preservation baby.

One Round Magazine ...
 

Somebody has to be in charge of reloading.