NCAA mechanics

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

Why not? If you standardize the rules and mechanics, and provided the checks are the same, wouldn't women's ball attract higher quality officials that would work both men's and women's?

I hope you are saying this in jest. I really dont think the rules and mechanics are what is keeping people from not doing women's basketball. More likely is that many officials think women's basketball sucks and wouldnt try to work it if the pay was double what they paid for the men's games.


About 8 years or so ago hear, one of the biggest conferences in the Chicago suburbs (33 schools at the time), fired their assignment coordinator. One of the reasons the person who replaced him was hired was that he agreed to do both boys and girls assignments and told the athletic directors and coaches he would make the officials working boys varsity games work girls varsity games as well. He found out very quickly that he wasnt going to be able to keep this promise. Over 95% of the boys varsity officals told him he could keep their boys games if it meant they had to do girls games as well, they would just fill their schedules with games in other leagues. Needless to say, he had no choice but to give guys just boys games otherwise he would have been the assignment guy for 1 season when the boy's coaches saw that they wouldnt get any of the officials they wanted because the assignor was trying to make them work girls games.

Originally Posted by johnny d

I really dont think the rules and mechanics are what is keeping people from not doing women's basketball. More likely is that many officials think women's basketball sucks and wouldnt try to work it if the pay was double what they paid for the men's games.

I am sure some guys who did not get many men's assignments would work women's, if it were not for the fact that officiating the women's game is so much different. For a decent men's official who only gets 15 assignments because of his lack of seniority, I think he might work women's games to fill in his schedule if not for the rules/mechanics gap.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

I am sure some guys who did not get many men's assignments would work women's, if it were not for the fact that officiating the women's game is so much different. For a decent men's official who only gets 15 assignments because of his lack of seniority, I think he might work women's games to fill in his schedule if not for the rules/mechanics gap.

As someone who works under different codes for BV and GV (NFHS vs. NCAAW modified) it's not a case of "oh I can't get boys assignments so I'm going to work girls." I worked boys only and had a good schedule but just wanted more games so I started doing girls' ball. If you can call a game, you can call a game. Dealing with the rules differences is more a speed bump than a road block.

In college it's as much a matter of assignors/supervisors don't want you doing both.

[BigBaldGuy]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

I am sure some guys who did not get many men's assignments would work women's, if it were not for the fact that officiating the women's game is so much different. For a decent men's official who only gets 15 assignments because of his lack of seniority, I think he might work women's games to fill in his schedule if not for the rules/mechanics gap.

The womens game is much more different than just some mechanics and rule differences. The philosophy is much different...as is the mindset of the officials and how the power that be want the game called...IMO

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

The womens game is much more different than just some mechanics and rule differences. The philosophy is much different...as is the mindset of the officials and how the power that be want the game called...IMO

You're correct. The big thing the powers that be emphasize with us is freedom of movement. Since - save for one person - the game isn't played above the rim in NCAAW, their game suffers considerably if illegal screens aren't dealt with. The other part of the equation is women react differently to contact than men do, especially at the lower levels. Men expect some level of contact, women get ticked off a lot faster when they think the contact is remotely close to the line.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I hope you are saying this in jest. I really dont think the rules and mechanics are what is keeping people from not doing women's basketball.

No, but it might be something that prevents officials from working both. Used to be that officials might start in women's basketball and some later move over to men's basketball. Joe DeRosa who worked in the NBA for many years (and now works men's D1) started that way.

Now it is completely segmented — you either work women's or men's, never both. And crossing over isn't very common either.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Brad

No, but it might be something that prevents officials from working both.

Not a chance. There are plenty of officials out there doing small college basketball and hs ball that have to switch back and forth on rules and mechanics. Simple fact is that men's and women's game are played on completely different physical level which leads to different expectations from the coaches, assignors, and players about what calls need to be made in each game. An official might be able to go back and forth on this, but they will never get as good at their judgement calls for either game by doing so.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Not a chance. There are plenty of officials out there doing small college basketball and hs ball that have to switch back and forth on rules and mechanics.

Good point.

Originally Posted by johnny d

Simple fact is that men's and women's game are played on completely different physical level which leads to different expectations from the coaches, assignors, and players about what calls need to be made in each game. An official might be able to go back and forth on this, but they will never get as good at their judgement calls for either game by doing so.

True.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad

No, but it might be something that prevents officials from working both. Used to be that officials might start in women's basketball and some later move over to men's basketball. Joe DeRosa who worked in the NBA for many years (and now works men's D1) started that way.

Now it is completely segmented — you either work women's or men's, never both. And crossing over isn't very common either.

Where are the people ranting about these comments? I was told there are people that work both all the time.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Where are the people ranting about these comments? I was told there are people that work both all the time.

Peace

Not at the college level. I've never seen anyone suggest that's the case. High school? That's another can of worms altogether.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Not at the college level. I've never seen anyone suggest that's the case. High school? That's another can of worms altogether.

There have been people here that claimed this has happen at the college level. Never seen any evidence that proves this, but I have heard this a few times as if it was a "norm."

Certainly at the HS level this takes place, it almost has to on many levels. But I have heard people suggest it happens in college, even after the NCAAW side took a turn to NBA style mechanics and rules.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There have been people here that claimed this has happen at the college level. Never seen any evidence that proves this, but I have heard this a few times as if it was a "norm."

Certainly at the HS level this takes place, it almost has to on many levels. But I have heard people suggest it happens in college, even after the NCAAW side took a turn to NBA style mechanics and rules.

Peace

Maybe at lower levels (DIII, NAIA, JUCO), but even then I would be surprised to see full schedules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Maybe at lower levels (DIII, NAIA, JUCO), but even then I would be surprised to see full schedules.

Someone claimed it happened at the D1 level on this very site.

That being said there was an assignor in my area that assigned D3 in a conference for both genders and tried to assign officials to both. That did not go over well and later that supervisor was released from both. And it certainly does not happen in my area at those levels you mentioned. Coaches do not want to see officials working the other side because of those expectations and philosophies that are often different on each side.

Peace