The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 10:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
I heard the ESPN report this morning....first time I had heard about this situation.

Ed Rush came and spoke to my officials group several years ago, when he was supervisor for the NBA. Nice guy, good speaker. He also made some references to players and coaches in the NBA at that time that were considered PITA and how the officials would "handle" them...everybody in the room knew it was in jest and funny. Just something officials do amongst themselves.

What pisses me off is that the "integrity of the officials" is being called into question. We get Sean Miller on TV saying "All I said was "He touched the ball" and I get a T for that..." We don't get to hear the officials side of the story and we won't ever get to.
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 10:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 719
Just heard on Dan Patrick, talking to Wichita State coach. Coach thinks he should be gone.

They are also talking about the targeting of coaches/players by some officials.

This train is picking up speed.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 10:48am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls View Post
Just heard on Dan Patrick, talking to Wichita State coach. Coach thinks he should be gone.

They are also talking about the targeting of coaches/players by some officials.

This train is picking up speed.
And everyone who ever had a grudge against Rush, or any other official, is going to come out with their own conspiracy theory about how the officials are out to get them.

For the record, this is why I never buy any conspiracy theory. Someone will always be disgruntled and speak out.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 11:02am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
I don't watch any PAC12 ball, but if Miller was such a PIA, and such a problem, why was this his first tech of the year? What has he done to be targeted? Did he complain about officiating in the press or something?
Easy. There are coaches in conferences that act up and officials let is slide because they feel that giving a T would hurt them professionally because of who he is and the school he comes from. I did see Arizona games several times this year and Miller does rant a lot and probably after several situations officials were asked about his behavior. I bet this was just a long line of stuff where Rush felt officials were giving him a pass. Remember NBA guys were never afraid to T up a coach and even a player. I am not going to say Miller was worse than other coaches in that league, but I can understand why Rush would feel that the officials were not doing their job.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 11:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston area
Posts: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am not going to say Miller was worse than other coaches in that league, but I can understand why Rush would feel that the officials were not doing their job.
Then he needs to learn how to communicate. First, the conference championship is not the time to suddenly get religion. Second, words matter.

I had a high school assignor tell me before a game a couple of years ago that if there were any problems we were to deal with it and he would back us completely. My take from what he said (this was at halftime of the the JV game, when I had just arrived for the varsity game) was that he had complaints that some officials were not taking care of business and he wanted to say it loud and clear that he had our back. There was nothing in his statement, tone or mannerism that anyone could take as anything against any coach or player.

This year, I heard of an assignor tell an AD that he had complaints about a coach from several officials. The AD said if the coach is such a problem, then how come he has not received one technical foul? When I shared this story with some officials who work that league, at least one said that was accurate: that he had not issued a T in one game where it was probably warranted. Now...there was never a conversation, memo or anything else to officials that said: this coach is a problem, deal with it. But if the assignor is hearing these reports (and maybe even observing the behavior himself), then he should be making clear to his officials of his expectations. If that is all Ed Rush was doing, that is correct. But timing, location, tone and words matter. From what I have read (and I will accept that it was supposed to be a "joke"), he still failed on virtually every one of those counts.

The memos I saw this season from the NCAA and from my college assignors about bench decorum and dealing with coaches were not echoed by any high school assignor. I know some officials say they are proud they have not called a T in many years; others almost brag about how many they call. If there is a level of expectation from our assignors, then I say they need to be able to tell us that.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 11:35am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
So you are telling me you have never been with a group of officials and no one in that meeting ever made a comment about a coach or player or school?

I know I have been in that situation and never took those situations that seriously. And he could have communicated this better, but obviously someone went to the press (and did not want to be identified) by telling what happened in the room.

No one prior to this incident was claiming Arizona was targeted in any way or that there was some conspiracy about a T or the actions in that game. The press conference after the game in the Pac-12 Tournament was a typical coach complaining what happened in the game like you saw with the Baylor Coach. Miller tried to act like he did not curse so that was the reason he should not have gotten the T. And if no money or trips were included in the comments I seriously doubt we would know this even took place.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 11:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston area
Posts: 615
Of course I have been with that group of officials. Some coaches are "known" to be problems and officials do talk about them...and what the coach, said, did, etc. and how that was dealt with. I find this helpful in my preparation for any game.

But there is a big difference between talk amongst officials and a talk (some would say "instruction") from a supervisor/assignor.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 11:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 574
Fellas - the facts are simple:

- Ed Rush, in a meeting on Thr. of the conference tournament, told game officials he would pay $5,000 or give them a trip to Cancun to anyone who "rang him up" or "ran him".
- Ed Rush said the same thing in a meeting the next day, Friday.
- On Friday, one official (who was present in BOTH meetings) assessed a T to the very same coach (AFTER an incorrect call went against Arizona).
- Per a PAC-12 official, the game official who assessed the T doesn't normally give people a T (in fact he worked only 11 games this yr w/ a T; which ranks him tied for 144th nationally).
- The ONLY T that Miller got during the year was in this game.

When you think about it, here's where it gets even more suspicious.

During conference tournaments, aren't players and coaches even more emotional than during the regular season? The officials that are selected to work these games not only get plays right, but more importantly, have the ability to manage players/coaches during incredibly tense situations.

During the BCS conference tournaments this year (PAC 12, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, & Big East), do you know how many times a coach was assessed a T?.....

TWICE: Arizona's Miller and UCLA's Howland (vs Oregon in the Champ. Game).

During the 68 total tournament games played, some of the most volatile and boisterous coaches in America weren't penalized...yet a guy who had not received 1 T all season gets one AFTER the Supervisor specifically targets him in a meeting - not once but TWICE?

You're right....it WAS a joke after all.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 11:57am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef View Post
Of course I have been with that group of officials. Some coaches are "known" to be problems and officials do talk about them...and what the coach, said, did, etc. and how that was dealt with. I find this helpful in my preparation for any game.

But there is a big difference between talk amongst officials and a talk (some would say "instruction") from a supervisor/assignor.
Not if the supervisor has seen behavior over and over again and officials were allowing this coach more leeway than anyone else. We must remember that Arizona was probably on national TV more than anyone else in that league and unlike many of our games, ever game probably has an evaluator or someone that reviews the games, so it is possible that Rush was tired of how officials were not doing their jobs. How often do we talk on this site about how we cannot believe an coach was not T'd or player's action were not penalized? Rush unlike us is the supervisor and he has the right to tell his staff to do their job. That does not mean that the way he communicated that was not over the top, but it does appear to me he was joking. Unless we have some evidence he paid that official any money or trip then it obviously was hyperbole to make a point. I have no problem if that point had the message sent. And we still do not know what Miller did or did not do in that situation.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 12:10pm
Official & Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by twocentsworth View Post
Fellas - the facts are simple:

- Ed Rush, in a meeting on Thr. of the conference tournament, told game officials he would pay $5,000 or give them a trip to Cancun to anyone who "rang him up" or "ran him".
- Ed Rush said the same thing in a meeting the next day, Friday.
Regardless of the bad timing and wrong environment to make such a "joke", wouldn't a SUPERVISOR need to have a better sense of how his "joke" was going to be interpreted? I can understand a couple staff officials kidding around about collecting a reward...but the SUPERVISOR??? Pretty astounding to me.
__________________
Calling it both ways...since 1999
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 12:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
Perception is reality. I think twocentsworth is dead-on when he ties everything together. That is how a lot of the public will see it and how ESPN will portray it. Ed Rush has backed himself into a corner.

It was a dumb comment. In this day and age, dumb comments don't die. This is going to be fun to watch.

On a related note, this wouldn't have happened if officials (at all levels, not just the NCAA) would learn to penalize inappropriate bench conduct.

"I didn't see it..." "my partner was closer..." "It didn't fit the game...." "It wouldn't have made the game better..." "The coach was on the other end of the floor when he was berating us...." "I've seen worse..." "He didn't say any swear words..." "I prefer to manage the situation instead of giving a T...."

All excuses to not have the guts to take care of business.
__________________
"To learn, you have to listen. To improve, you have to try." (Thomas Jefferson)
Z
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 12:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Not where I was previously
Posts: 1,060
I predict the first T in the PAC-10 will go like this:
Coach sees a call he feels is questionable
Coach asks official if Rush paid him to make that call
Coach gets T
Coach asks how much Rush paid him to give the T
Assistant Coach takes over coaching duties the rest of the night.

Every close or 'controversial' play made by officials supervised by Rush will now be endlessly, and some would argue appropriately, by everyone. How does that not harm officiating?
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 12:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Not where I was previously
Posts: 1,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebraman View Post
Perception is reality. I think twocentsworth is dead-on when he ties everything together. That is how a lot of the public will see it and how ESPN will portray it. Ed Rush has backed himself into a corner.

It was a dumb comment. In this day and age, dumb comments don't die. This is going to be fun to watch.

On a related note, this wouldn't have happened if officials (at all levels, not just the NCAA) would learn to penalize inappropriate bench conduct.

"I didn't see it..." "my partner was closer..." "It didn't fit the game...." "It wouldn't have made the game better..." "The coach was on the other end of the floor when he was berating us...." "I've seen worse..." "He didn't say any swear words..." "I prefer to manage the situation instead of giving a T...."

All excuses to not have the guts to take care of business.
Or my favorite: Man, that coach is getting on my nerves. Someone should T him.
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 12:26pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Let us not go on about what the public thinks. Many of the public felt the NFL had no right to penalize the Saints for their actions either. I put little stock in what the public thinks on an issue where they never have direct knowledge of how a profession works.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 02, 2013, 12:27pm
Stop staring at me swan.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Let us not go on about what the public thinks. Many of the public felt the NFL had no right to penalize the Saints for their actions either. I put little stock in what the public thinks on an issue where they never have direct knowledge of how a profession works.

Peace
agree with this 100%
__________________
It's like Deja Vu all over again
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94643-trouble-bruin-pac-12-aint-ucla.html
Posted By For Type Date
PAC 12 Ref Targeted Sean Miller This thread Refback Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:29pm

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fla-UCLA softball_junky Softball 17 Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:24am
Ucla - Asu IRISHMAFIA Softball 8 Sat May 31, 2008 10:09am
Usc-ucla rainmaker Basketball 6 Mon Jan 21, 2008 03:00pm
UCLA Texas & UCLA NW tcblue13 Softball 3 Mon Jun 05, 2006 04:53pm
UCLA vs AZ wadeintothem Softball 2 Sat May 07, 2005 12:57pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:29am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1