Louisville/Baylor (Women)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by michblue

... I still feel T did the right thing by saving the crew and making the call and I still feel and believe T got the call correct.

I don't see how you are saving the crew by guessing at a call that most officials think you got wrong.

Still waiting on you to state what the offensive player did wrong on this play.

[efbyon]

(Haven't posted in a long while...good to see all this great discussion, even though I may not agree with all of it).

The officials in question were Melissa Barlow, Laura Morris, and Frank Steratore. I know Barlow still works in the WNBA (as of last season anyway) in addition to her DI duties.

Guess I'll pose the question: is Frank related to Gene (NFL and DI men's official)? I know Gene has sibilings in officiating, having read articles published elsewhere, but could not find anything that connected Frank to Gene.

Fred

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by efbyon

(Haven't posted in a long while...good to see all this great discussion, even though I may not agree with all of it).

The officials in question were Melissa Barlow, Laura Morris, and Frank Steratore. I know Barlow still works in the WNBA (as of last season anyway) in addition to her DI duties.

Guess I'll pose the question: is Frank related to Gene (NFL and DI men's official)? I know Gene has sibilings in officiating, having read articles published elsewhere, but could not find anything that connected Frank to Gene.

Fred

Frank is Gene's brother and also officiates in the NFL.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Frank is Gene's brother and also officiates in the NFL.

And I'll say this, out of the crew Steratore is only one in the clips I saw who wasn't "bad".

He ran a long distance to at least address the taunting situation that the Lead should have T'd up. He had the best view of the flop at 16.0 seconds and correctly no-called it. I think he was the one who addressed the kick ball on the throw-in and put the correct time back on the clock. He called the foul on Louisville with 9 seconds left. And, though late and tentative, he's the only one who put a whistle on Griner foul with 2 second left.

But this might be a case where everyone goes down with the ship.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And I'll say this, out of the crew Steratore is only one in the clips I saw who wasn't "bad".

He ran a long distance to at least address the taunting situation that the Lead should have T'd up. He had the best view of the flop at 16.0 seconds and correctly no-called it. I think he was the one who addressed the kick ball on the throw-in and put the correct time back on the clock. He called the foul on Louisville with 9 seconds left. And, though late and tentative, he's the only one who put a whistle on Griner foul with 2 second left.

But this might be a case where everyone goes down with the ship.

IMHO, Steratore was the absolutely WORST official on the floor. Forget the fact that this game was WAY too physical and bordered on being out of control for large stretches of the game....

Let's be specific:
1) Steratore DID NOT issue a T when the UL player scored the layup and taunted Greiner.
2) Steratore DID NOT call the PC on Baylor late in the game (as the L, Barlow was foreced to come and get it).
3) Steratore DID NOT assess a T to the Baylor HC after the late PC foul. He was the C and was clearly in a position to penalize the Baylor coach in the exact same way the UL coach was penalized after complaining about a PC foul at approx. 2:00 left in the game.
4) To his credit, he DID make the final foul call of the game w/ under :03 remaining, but clearly DID NOT want to make the call as he "double clutched" his signal and waited until the play finished, the ball hit the ground out of bounds, started to bounce up in the air, and THEN sheepishly blew his whistle for the foul.

This game is the perfect example of the mantra that: "99% of the problems in a game occur as the result of not blowing the whistle enough, rather than too much". Overall, this crew performed poorly for virtually the entire game; and Steratore had the worst performance of all.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

IMHO, Steratore was the absolutely WORST official on the floor. Forget the fact that this game was WAY too physical and bordered on being out of control for large stretches of the game....

Let's be specific:
1) Steratore DID NOT issue a T when the UL player scored the layup and taunted Greiner.
2) Steratore DID NOT call the PC on Baylor late in the game (as the L, Barlow was foreced to come and get it).
3) Steratore DID NOT assess a T to the Baylor HC after the late PC foul. He was the C and was clearly in a position to penalize the Baylor coach in the exact same way the UL coach was penalized after complaining about a PC foul at approx. 2:00 left in the game.
4) To his credit, he DID make the final foul call of the game w/ under :03 remaining, but clearly DID NOT want to make the call as he "double clutched" his signal and waited until the play finished, the ball hit the ground out of bounds, started to bounce up in the air, and THEN sheepishly blew his whistle for the foul.

This game is the perfect example of the mantra that: "99% of the problems in a game occur as the result of not blowing the whistle enough, rather than too much". Overall, this crew performed poorly for virtually the entire game; and Steratore had the worst performance of all.

I really don't anyone of them was really worse than the other.

1. I don't believe he was the one that was the one right there. Didn't he come in from elsewhere to seperate them?

2. It wasn't a PC, it was a gigantic flop.

3. Any of the 3 could have T'd her up. If I am the lead, or the trail and I see this I am coming in to get it.

4. Late or not, the right call was made. We see late whistles all the time, how many times have you seen a guy wait to see if the shot goes in, and then blow the whistle. The thing that looked the worst was the double clutch.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I really don't anyone of them was really worse than the other.

1. I don't believe he was the one that was the one right there. Didn't he come in from elsewhere to seperate them?

Steratore was the C during this transition play. Not only did he SEE the UL player get off the ground and get in Greiner's face...he sprinted from his C position apporx. 20ft to separate the two players. His whole reason for getting between the two players was because he saw what was happening and did not assess the T.

He witnessed the ENTIRE post foul interaction! This is one of the my primary pieces of evidence that he was a reluctant participant in the entire game. Rather than effectively officiate and control the game, he recoiled. This game was played at 1 or 2 "notches" above his level.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

IMHO, Steratore was the absolutely WORST official on the floor. Forget the fact that this game was WAY too physical and bordered on being out of control for large stretches of the game....

Let's be specific:
1) Steratore DID NOT issue a T when the UL player scored the layup and taunted Greiner.
2) Steratore DID NOT call the PC on Baylor late in the game (as the L, Barlow was foreced to come and get it).
3) Steratore DID NOT assess a T to the Baylor HC after the late PC foul. He was the C and was clearly in a position to penalize the Baylor coach in the exact same way the UL coach was penalized after complaining about a PC foul at approx. 2:00 left in the game.
4) To his credit, he DID make the final foul call of the game w/ under :03 remaining, but clearly DID NOT want to make the call as he "double clutched" his signal and waited until the play finished, the ball hit the ground out of bounds, started to bounce up in the air, and THEN sheepishly blew his whistle for the foul.

This game is the perfect example of the mantra that: "99% of the problems in a game occur as the result of not blowing the whistle enough, rather than too much". Overall, this crew performed poorly for virtually the entire game; and Steratore had the worst performance of all.

1. Not sure which official was L and which was C on that play, but that failure falls on all three. Steratore was not alone in the middle of the players, I do remember that.
This is not evidence that he was the worst, as they all missed it.
2. That was a bad call, he was right to pass on it.
3. Again, this falls on all of them. That tirade was seen by my grandmother in Des Moines, and she wasn't even watching the game.
4. He made a crew saving call. Sure, he double pumped on it as he was, I think, anticipating a double whistle from the C. His late call and double pump looked bad, but he made the call. You can't use this as evidence he was the worst official out there because the primary official missed it first and he bailed her out.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

1) Steratore DID NOT issue a T
2) Steratore DID NOT call the PC on Baylor late in the game
3) Steratore DID NOT assess a T to the Baylor HC
4) To his credit, he DID make the final foul call of the game .

Two points you fail to see. FOUR wrong calls, in this game, doesn't even get you on the radar of bad officials - his partners were in the double digits. Of the four you mention, 1 was a GOOD no-call, 2 could/should have been gotten by partners, and the one you give to his credit is actually related to the worst call he made (at least, the MANNER in which it was made).

[Referee24.7]

I'm jumping in way late on this, but here's a couple things:

1) To the guy's question (bgtg19) about why the officials came together at 16 seconds left. There was a throw-in and the ball was kicked by the defender, but the clock started. By rule, the clock can't start on an illegal touch so they had to go to the monitor to find out what time to put back on. They do not have PTS in the tournament, so that's why they came together to put it back to 16.7

2) Now, in regards to the 2 block/charge calls - they were both 50/50 and I can see where everyone felt they were wrong, but here's the dilly on this - the official who called both calls matched her plays on both ends. Now, you all might say that she matched plays that were both bad, but at the end, they were both consistent on what were similar plays. Either way, for all who saw the next play, Baylor stole the ball, went to the FT line and made both to go up 1 with 9.1 secs to go.

3) The foul on Griner was obvious at 2.6. Now, should the center official had a first whistle on that play and by rule with womens' primaries - absolutely, but either maybe she didn't have an open look (maybe she just had a butt and back), and albeit the foul didn't look right or confident from the lead, the guy saved THE FREAKIN GAME by making a gutsy call that looked like he was waiting for the center official to have a whistle on it.

Its funny because we're all Final Four officials from our sofas or our living rooms or whatever place we're watching the game, and all of us who put on stripes have had plays where we go with our gut, we go back and look at tape, and then we bite our lips.

I'm sure those officials looked at the tape and they know they should've called more fouls, but regardless of that, the classless comments by the Baylor coach after the game gives no justification to the fact that Louisville shot almost 60% from the 3-pt line and if she would've never gotten down almost 3 TD's in the first place, she wouldn't have to go on a pissing rant about displacing blame on the stripes, when in fact, she should've gotten on her team about not playing perimeter defense.

Ok, back to just reading your interesting posts and I'm off my soapbox cameo. . .

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Referee24.7

...Its funny because we're all Final Four officials from our sofas or our living rooms or whatever place we're watching the game, and all of us who put on stripes have had plays where we go with our gut, we go back and look at tape, and then we bite our lips.

I'm sure those officials looked at the tape and they know they should've called more fouls, but regardless of that, the classless comments by the Baylor coach after the game gives no justification to the fact that Louisville shot almost 60% from the 3-pt line and if she would've never gotten down almost 3 TD's in the first place, she wouldn't have to go on a pissing rant about displacing blame on the stripes, when in fact, she should've gotten on her team about not playing perimeter defense.

Ok, back to just reading your interesting posts and I'm off my soapbox cameo. . .

I agree we all have our days. But the uncalled taunting, the play where the Louisville player was actually swinging punches towards Griner, and Griner getting popped in the face on one play, all with no whistles, are indefensible.

And at no point did Mulkey blame the officials for the loss.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I agree we all have our days. But the uncalled taunting, the play where the Louisville player was actually swinging punches towards Griner, and Griner getting popped in the face on one play, all with no whistles, are indefensible.

And at no point did Mulkey blame the officials for the loss.

I totally agree. How those things were not called baffles me when they have been in our heads about this kind of actions continuously. I know they have at the NCAA Men's side and certainly at the HS side. I was just shocked and it might have eliminated other actions if you give a T or penalize other situations. Then you allow the media and the coaches to claim you lost control of the game. I did not even these live, I saw them on highlight and was shocked nothing was called in those cases.

Peace

[michblue]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I agree we all have our days. But the uncalled taunting, the play where the Louisville player was actually swinging punches towards Griner, and Griner getting popped in the face on one play, all with no whistles, are indefensible.

I agree with BadNewsRef and 24.7 on both of your posts. Some things are not indefensible and I think the crew did or will be explaining their approach to the game to the people that they need to and the crew will be evaluated accordingly from this game positive and negative.

However, I think the lack of discussing Baylor's coach's comments after the game has gotten me the most concerned. With all of the comments I have read in this thread....some of us might as well have been up right along side Baylor's coach during the press conference.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by michblue

...
However, I think the lack of discussing Baylor's coach's comments after the game has gotten me the most concerned. With all of the comments I have read in this thread....some of us might as well have been up right along side Baylor's coach during the press conference.

Her comments really don't concern me. She's just another coach venting in a news conference. She'll have to answer to somebody for that. My concern is folks saying she blamed the officials for the loss when she did no such thing.

[Referee24.7]

To respond - should they have given a T to Schimmel when she squared up to Griner - absolutely -- because by rule, that's automatic. Why they didn't, I don't know because I don't know what the crew thought at that moment when it occurred. . .

We can say all we want on how the game could've been officiated better and what we left out there or what we didn't do out there, but at the end of the day, we all call what we see and there are times for ALL OF US, that we're going to see something that wasn't there and we're not going to see something that was right in front of us. . .

On a sidenote, in regards to mens' officials, I remember Kitts in the Western Kentucky-Kansas 1st round game stopping the freakin game during live play to address 2 players who squared up to each other and did nothing but talk to them, and then put the ball back in play, which by rule, you can't do because its essentially an inadverent whistle.

And then Corbett on the SD State-Oklahoma game disposing the ball to the Oklahoma player on a throw-in, he starts a count, the OK player loses the ball out of his hands, it goes live on the floor, and then Corbett blows his whistle, kills the play, takes the ball back and hands it back to the OK player, starts his count all over again like nothing ever happened. . .

But, I digress, because again, I was on my sofa, acting like I was all that and some future Final Four official.

In this era with media and everything being taped, you just can't do anything that can be looked at sideways because it gets exposed. So what we all know to be common sense and what might be better for the game we just can't do anymore because the rules have become as black and white as the stripes we wear thru the wonders of TV and DVD.

I think at the end of the day while we all post and critique, as a fellow stripe, my best feelings are with those officials because how those they do at those levels, regardless of what we all might think otherwise, is a reflection on all of us as stripes. . .