Louisville/Baylor (Women)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bgtg19

Right, except that the *whole* team was huddled with coach, including the player who was supposed to be at the line ready to shoot her FT. Her teammates don't have to be there, but doesn't the shooter have to be there?

A Louisville player did foul out, but in the video you can see all 5 Louisville players standing on the court ready to play (4 of them in their lane spaces) and the ref goes toward the Baylor bench and tweets her whistle to get a shooter....

And what else would you suggest the ref should do?

Besides, which is it?

Originally Posted by bgtg19

2. With 9.1 seconds left, after the foul on the layup attempt, the referee is ready to administer the free throw and 4 Louisville players are lined up in their lane spaces and where is Baylor? The team without a timeout is huddling up with Coach Mulkey. I thought huddles in the lane aren't allowed - huddles with the coach? Permitting that huddle seemed to give a pretty big advantage to Baylor.

Were there four or five players huddled with the coach?

[sj]

I'm going to open up a can of worms just to understand better.

Concerning the call at 16 seconds is there any procedure, allowance or mechanic where either the C, or the L, can go to the T to discuss the play?

If I'm a C in a situation like this and I had no foul and I know 100% that the T is wrong can we discuss it, find out what each other had, and then if the T wants to, change the call to nothing?

By asking I'm not saying it should be done but just simply asking to understand the pluses and minuses of doing so.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Frank is Gene's brother and also officiates in the NFL.

And I'll say this, out of the crew Steratore is only one in the clips I saw who wasn't "bad".

He ran a long distance to at least address the taunting situation that the Lead should have T'd up. He had the best view of the flop at 16.0 seconds and correctly no-called it. I think he was the one who addressed the kick ball on the throw-in and put the correct time back on the clock. He called the foul on Louisville with 9 seconds left. And, though late and tentative, he's the only one who put a whistle on Griner foul with 2 second left.

But this might be a case where everyone goes down with the ship.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have worked college ball too and that was about as big of a flop as I have ever seen. The defender threw themselves out of the way and was not at all displaced. If anything the defender falling down made the Baylor player trip over them, but there was no torso contact. And two officials that had a better angle passed on the play.

Peace

In Mich's defense, he didn't say he'd worked college ball... just that he'd worked at college. I think we're all assuming he doesn't mean basketball.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by michblue

...
These men and women working these game are far better trained then we are and may ever be...

A lot of us aren't at their level but we've received the same training. I see many guys working the NIT and NCAA tourney who took the same training path I am currently on. It's what keeps my head up when I sometimes get discouraged about not being at a certain level that I want to be at. And one of the guys who I am in direct contact with badly kicked a call in the Sweet 16.

In fact, I would say most of the officials we see on TV this late in the season are no longer doing any training, they are mostly just teaching and observing in the off-season.

[MD Longhorn]

Full disclosure here - I was rooting against Baylor, and am among the last to jump on the officials who have made it to games like these. That said, this was a debacle. 2 of the officials looked like guys I might work with the first few weeks of a season before they realize they can't hack it and give up. Seriously - they were a complete mess and looked entirely out of place during most of the game. A disservice to a game of this magnitude.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by sj

I'm going to open up a can of worms just to understand better.

Concerning the call at 16 seconds is there any procedure, allowance or mechanic where either the C, or the L, can go to the T to discuss the play?

If I'm a C in a situation like this and I had no foul and I know 100% that the T is wrong can we discuss it, find out what each other had, and then if the T wants to, change the call to nothing?

By asking I'm not saying it should be done but just simply asking to understand the pluses and minuses of doing so.

I guess you can discuss anything, but what is that going to do? You have an opinion and they have an opinion. And we could do that all day and every call. Not a good way to officiate.

Peace

[Referee24.7]

Since this has still been moving. . .

- The kick-ball call at 16 seconds where they come to talk. You HAVE to do that because by rule, its an illegal touch, nuff said. If I work with any partner and they come and ask me if the ball was kicked and the clock ran, rest assured, after the game, I'm going to thank them for it, and not be upset that they came to talk to me about it. . .

If any of us are working a game like that where every play and situation has impact and could affect the outcome of the game, whether it takes 3 seconds or 3 minutes in talking to get it right, that's what we have to do because its about the game.

Now, that being said, do I feel there should be a time limit when going to look at the monitor like they have in the NFL - that, I believe, will be a discussion that both mens' and womens' committees will have after the tournament is over. . .

All of us have personalities as well and those people that are working those types of games, for the most part, many of them are severely "Type A", so when you put 3 of those Type A's together - sometimes its great for the game, and other times, well. . .(please see Hess-Stuart on Marquette-UConn game), etc etc. . .

Bottom line for me is I'd much rather work with someone who isn't "safe" and says whats in their gut on the floor than to be that person and come into the locker room in postgame and say it after the fact. . .

[bgtg19]

Originally Posted by Adam

And what else would you suggest the ref should do?

Besides, which is it?

Were there four or five players huddled with the coach?

Adam, I'm not sure what you are asking ("which is it?"). There are 5 Baylor players huddled with the coach. There are 4 Louisville players lined up in lane spaces. There is one Louisville player outside the 3-point line, out toward half-court. I never suggested that there were four players huddled with the coach....

As for what to do? I don't know. I thought people here might have some insight as to the right way to handle it. On the one hand, I don't think you can do much other than what she did (step toward the huddle and tweet); a T under those circumstances might be overly officious. On the other hand, to let the whole team huddle (including the shooter) while everyone else is ready to resume play is giving an unfair advantage to Baylor which, as I mentioned, had no time outs left at that point. But the graciousness of the officials toward Baylor was not something Coach Mulkey emphasized in her post-game press conference....

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bgtg19

Adam, I'm not sure what you are asking ("which is it?"). There are 5 Baylor players huddled with the coach. There are 4 Louisville players lined up in lane spaces. There is one Louisville player outside the 3-point line, out toward half-court. I never suggested that there were four players huddled with the coach....

As for what to do? I don't know. I thought people here might have some insight as to the right way to handle it. On the one hand, I don't think you can do much other than what she did (step toward the huddle and tweet); a T under those circumstances might be overly officious. On the other hand, to let the whole team huddle (including the shooter) while everyone else is ready to resume play is giving an unfair advantage to Baylor which, as I mentioned, had no time outs left at that point. But the graciousness of the officials toward Baylor was not something Coach Mulkey emphasized in her post-game press conference....

Based on the one time that I saw the clip (so this might not be right), Baylor was huddling because the Louisville player had fouled out. Once the player let, and the official let them know that, they came out. The game wasn't delayed.

What the official did appeared to be good game management. Calling an immediate T for the FT shooter not being in the circle at the exact instant the player was replaced would have led to even more Ts.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Based on the one time that I saw the clip (so this might not be right), Baylor was huddling because the Louisville player had fouled out. Once the player let, and the official let them know that, they came out. The game wasn't delayed.
...

That what I saw. Baylor was huddled and the next shot is of the Louisville player still headed towards her bench.

[Camron Rust]

The only real issue I have in the above clip is the charge. That was a flop for the ages. In no way shape or form do I see a charge.

The other foul calls were all fine. No issue with them.

That was the C's or the L's. There is no way the T should have ever come in on that play. The defender was in the lane and didn't come in with the drive. That is usually the L's.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Based on the one time that I saw the clip (so this might not be right), Baylor was huddling because the Louisville player had fouled out. Once the player let, and the official let them know that, they came out. The game wasn't delayed.

What the official did appeared to be good game management. Calling an immediate T for the FT shooter not being in the circle at the exact instant the player was replaced would have led to even more Ts.

It would have been a delay of game warning first, not a TF

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by Adam

I thought it was a good call.

I'm not sure you, or anyone, could, when reviewing this play via video review find the point at which the defender established LGP prior to the shooter leaving the floor.

[ballgame99]

Are there no rules in the NCAA about how many coaches can be standing? That Baylor bench is a mess; there are a minimum of 4 coaches standing the entire time.

Regarding the play, charge looked weak, even weaker when you consider it came from the T. The guy at C was probably not happy with that reach, he was looking right at the contact and had nothing.

On the final foul on Griner, I'm not so sure that was a foul. THe offensive player's knee buckles when she jumps which make the whole play look strange, but there wasn't much contact. If there was a foul it was on the first degender, but she looks like she misses.

High pressure stage, and a tough call on the spot though. Would love to see some of the other clips from this game though.