Louisville/Baylor (Women)

[efbyon]

(Haven't posted in a long while...good to see all this great discussion, even though I may not agree with all of it).

The officials in question were Melissa Barlow, Laura Morris, and Frank Steratore. I know Barlow still works in the WNBA (as of last season anyway) in addition to her DI duties.

Guess I'll pose the question: is Frank related to Gene (NFL and DI men's official)? I know Gene has sibilings in officiating, having read articles published elsewhere, but could not find anything that connected Frank to Gene.

Fred

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by efbyon

(Haven't posted in a long while...good to see all this great discussion, even though I may not agree with all of it).

The officials in question were Melissa Barlow, Laura Morris, and Frank Steratore. I know Barlow still works in the WNBA (as of last season anyway) in addition to her DI duties.

Guess I'll pose the question: is Frank related to Gene (NFL and DI men's official)? I know Gene has sibilings in officiating, having read articles published elsewhere, but could not find anything that connected Frank to Gene.

Fred

Frank is Gene's brother and also officiates in the NFL.

[Referee24.7]

I'm jumping in way late on this, but here's a couple things:

1) To the guy's question (bgtg19) about why the officials came together at 16 seconds left. There was a throw-in and the ball was kicked by the defender, but the clock started. By rule, the clock can't start on an illegal touch so they had to go to the monitor to find out what time to put back on. They do not have PTS in the tournament, so that's why they came together to put it back to 16.7

2) Now, in regards to the 2 block/charge calls - they were both 50/50 and I can see where everyone felt they were wrong, but here's the dilly on this - the official who called both calls matched her plays on both ends. Now, you all might say that she matched plays that were both bad, but at the end, they were both consistent on what were similar plays. Either way, for all who saw the next play, Baylor stole the ball, went to the FT line and made both to go up 1 with 9.1 secs to go.

3) The foul on Griner was obvious at 2.6. Now, should the center official had a first whistle on that play and by rule with womens' primaries - absolutely, but either maybe she didn't have an open look (maybe she just had a butt and back), and albeit the foul didn't look right or confident from the lead, the guy saved THE FREAKIN GAME by making a gutsy call that looked like he was waiting for the center official to have a whistle on it.

Its funny because we're all Final Four officials from our sofas or our living rooms or whatever place we're watching the game, and all of us who put on stripes have had plays where we go with our gut, we go back and look at tape, and then we bite our lips.

I'm sure those officials looked at the tape and they know they should've called more fouls, but regardless of that, the classless comments by the Baylor coach after the game gives no justification to the fact that Louisville shot almost 60% from the 3-pt line and if she would've never gotten down almost 3 TD's in the first place, she wouldn't have to go on a pissing rant about displacing blame on the stripes, when in fact, she should've gotten on her team about not playing perimeter defense.

Ok, back to just reading your interesting posts and I'm off my soapbox cameo. . .

[michblue]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't see how you are saving the crew by guessing at a call that most officials think you got wrong.

Still waiting on you to state what the offensive player did wrong on this play.

First I do not think T guessed on this play. I firmly believe she gave every chance to the C to make the call because it was C's primary and T's secondary.

And after seeing the play over and over...I still believe and feel the Baylor player initiated the contact causing both players to go to the floor. By rule that is a charge.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Referee24.7

...Its funny because we're all Final Four officials from our sofas or our living rooms or whatever place we're watching the game, and all of us who put on stripes have had plays where we go with our gut, we go back and look at tape, and then we bite our lips.

I'm sure those officials looked at the tape and they know they should've called more fouls, but regardless of that, the classless comments by the Baylor coach after the game gives no justification to the fact that Louisville shot almost 60% from the 3-pt line and if she would've never gotten down almost 3 TD's in the first place, she wouldn't have to go on a pissing rant about displacing blame on the stripes, when in fact, she should've gotten on her team about not playing perimeter defense.

Ok, back to just reading your interesting posts and I'm off my soapbox cameo. . .

I agree we all have our days. But the uncalled taunting, the play where the Louisville player was actually swinging punches towards Griner, and Griner getting popped in the face on one play, all with no whistles, are indefensible.

And at no point did Mulkey blame the officials for the loss.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I agree we all have our days. But the uncalled taunting, the play where the Louisville player was actually swinging punches towards Griner, and Griner getting popped in the face on one play, all with no whistles, are indefensible.

And at no point did Mulkey blame the officials for the loss.

I totally agree. How those things were not called baffles me when they have been in our heads about this kind of actions continuously. I know they have at the NCAA Men's side and certainly at the HS side. I was just shocked and it might have eliminated other actions if you give a T or penalize other situations. Then you allow the media and the coaches to claim you lost control of the game. I did not even these live, I saw them on highlight and was shocked nothing was called in those cases.

Peace

[michblue]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I agree we all have our days. But the uncalled taunting, the play where the Louisville player was actually swinging punches towards Griner, and Griner getting popped in the face on one play, all with no whistles, are indefensible.

I agree with BadNewsRef and 24.7 on both of your posts. Some things are not indefensible and I think the crew did or will be explaining their approach to the game to the people that they need to and the crew will be evaluated accordingly from this game positive and negative.

However, I think the lack of discussing Baylor's coach's comments after the game has gotten me the most concerned. With all of the comments I have read in this thread....some of us might as well have been up right along side Baylor's coach during the press conference.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by michblue

...
However, I think the lack of discussing Baylor's coach's comments after the game has gotten me the most concerned. With all of the comments I have read in this thread....some of us might as well have been up right along side Baylor's coach during the press conference.

Her comments really don't concern me. She's just another coach venting in a news conference. She'll have to answer to somebody for that. My concern is folks saying she blamed the officials for the loss when she did no such thing.

[Referee24.7]

To respond - should they have given a T to Schimmel when she squared up to Griner - absolutely -- because by rule, that's automatic. Why they didn't, I don't know because I don't know what the crew thought at that moment when it occurred. . .

We can say all we want on how the game could've been officiated better and what we left out there or what we didn't do out there, but at the end of the day, we all call what we see and there are times for ALL OF US, that we're going to see something that wasn't there and we're not going to see something that was right in front of us. . .

On a sidenote, in regards to mens' officials, I remember Kitts in the Western Kentucky-Kansas 1st round game stopping the freakin game during live play to address 2 players who squared up to each other and did nothing but talk to them, and then put the ball back in play, which by rule, you can't do because its essentially an inadverent whistle.

And then Corbett on the SD State-Oklahoma game disposing the ball to the Oklahoma player on a throw-in, he starts a count, the OK player loses the ball out of his hands, it goes live on the floor, and then Corbett blows his whistle, kills the play, takes the ball back and hands it back to the OK player, starts his count all over again like nothing ever happened. . .

But, I digress, because again, I was on my sofa, acting like I was all that and some future Final Four official.

In this era with media and everything being taped, you just can't do anything that can be looked at sideways because it gets exposed. So what we all know to be common sense and what might be better for the game we just can't do anymore because the rules have become as black and white as the stripes we wear thru the wonders of TV and DVD.

I think at the end of the day while we all post and critique, as a fellow stripe, my best feelings are with those officials because how those they do at those levels, regardless of what we all might think otherwise, is a reflection on all of us as stripes. . .

[rockyroad]

Jumping in late here - was busy with family yesterday. First thought was that the pc call was not good. And the whole "gotta have a whistle when players go to the floor" is not correct. We do need to know how they went to the floor, know what happened, but we don't need a whistle just because, and this play is the proof of that.

My second thought...I actually burst out laughing when the Baylor coach had her hissy fit. What in the world makes coaches think that going straight to the tearing off of the jacket is somehow intimidating to us? She looked like a clown. A clown that should have been whacked, but still a clown.

No idea why the earlier crap was not dealt with...but I think this game just cost those three any more games in this tournament.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by michblue

I agree with BadNewsRef and 24.7 on both of your posts. Some things are not indefensible and I think the crew did or will be explaining their approach to the game to the people that they need to and the crew will be evaluated accordingly from this game positive and negative.

However, I think the lack of discussing Baylor's coach's comments after the game has gotten me the most concerned. With all of the comments I have read in this thread....some of us might as well have been up right along side Baylor's coach during the press conference.

I do not care about her comments either. Just put her down as another coach that complained about a situation without taking responsibility for her actions.

She is lucky she did not get T'd in that game. She had to come back from a big deficit that her coaching appeared to create. They took away her best player and she had no coaching answer that worked. So if she wants to complain about the officiating, what else is new? The officials after IMO the bad charge call put her team on the line to win the game and then her players fouled the UL player and sent them to the line to actually win the game. I really do not concern myself with her point of view. I can think a call was bad in the game and not think it cost a team the game.

Peace

[bgtg19]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What rule says offensive players have to occupy their lane spaces? And what prevents them from standing by their coach along the sideline?

Right, except that the *whole* team was huddled with coach, including the player who was supposed to be at the line ready to shoot her FT. Her teammates don't have to be there, but doesn't the shooter have to be there?

A Louisville player did foul out, but in the video you can see all 5 Louisville players standing on the court ready to play (4 of them in their lane spaces) and the ref goes toward the Baylor bench and tweets her whistle to get a shooter....

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Jumping in late here - was busy with family yesterday. First thought was that the pc call was not good. And the whole "gotta have a whistle when players go to the floor" is not correct. We do need to know how they went to the floor, know what happened, but we don't need a whistle just because, and this play is the proof of that.

My second thought...I actually burst out laughing when the Baylor coach had her hissy fit. What in the world makes coaches think that going straight to the tearing off of the jacket is somehow intimidating to us? She looked like a clown. A clown that should have been whacked, but still a clown.

No idea why the earlier crap was not dealt with...but I think this game just cost those three any more games in this tournament.

Coach Mulkey and Gino Areama (?) are so over the top and really do a disservice to their programs when they act like this. They act like petulant children.

It looked like Mulkey was ripping off her jacket to have a throw down with Barlow. I am quite surprised she didn't get T'd.

For the officials that say this was a good call, you need to have some understanding as to what the NCAA is teaching. On B/C plays they don't want us to reward players that are flopping, the preference is a no-call, and if it happens again call them for a block. Contact is supposed to be evaluated on a To and Through basis. The contact was to (if that) and the T reacted to the over the top flop. Unfortunately she had the worse look of the 3 officials.

As for the last foul on Griner. The L just looked really bad on the double clutch and lateness of the call. For those of you that say it was the L's or the C's call to make, in those situations the entire crew is going to have an opinion on the play because they are all watching the same thing everyone else is....THE BALL. If the C does not have a whistle, then the L will. He had the choice of 2 defenders, the C had 2 defenders to look through, making it a tough call for her to make.

[JRutledge]

Just because the C can make a call does not mean the L cannot make a call. That sounds like a cop out to me on many levels. Even in the NCAA Men's side where they say the L takes these calls it does not mean that the other officials ignore a foul. They only talk about the L taking the call if there is a double whistle, not swallow your whistle. And the L has to anticipate there is something going to happen.

Peace

[icallfouls]

We are in agreement Rut