Michigan State-Duke clip(s)

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I call them when I see them, and it was no trouble to see any of these.

Be careful, just because it is obvious to you probably means you guessed at it and got lucky with the video proof.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do think there is a case to be made that what you consider control, someone else would not consider control. And I also never said it was hard to see, I just obviously do not agree when they have control as you do. But what else is new?

Peace

So, enlighten us. Is control an issue here? Are these all good no calls, too?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So, enlighten us. Is control an issue here? Are these all good no calls, too?

No it is so obvious, tell us why they are travels. It is one thing to say it is a travel, it is another to be specific as to why. Because once I tell you why I feel they might not be traveling you will just say I was wrong and ignoring the obvious, so why bother?

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did it ever occur to you the officials did not feel these are travels?

Fair enough but if that's the case, based on the rule book, it would be nice to know why. If they just plain old missed them then hey, that's the way life goes. We all do but I'm pretty sure we all try not to.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When people stop acting like every missed travel has a hightened tragedy to every other missed violation in the game. Maybe when that happens I will stop making this point. But I do not see anyone going nuts over 3 seconds, offensive post play, or players running out of bounds (all penalize the defense), but somehow the travel is the conspiracy?

JRut, I think we as a group analyze everything critically on this board not just travels. It just happens to be the violation that's called - and possibly seen - most often other than a ball going OOB. It's not some sort of tragedy or conspiracy. There are just some plays where we wonder how it was missed.

I'm just baffled why the two travel discussions - this and the Syracuse/Indiana clip - have become so argumentative. Either the players did or they didn't. Some plays may have more debate than others based on camera angles but to add on to what BayState said in the other thread the goal of posting these is to get better.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just say you think it is a travel, why all the hyperbole about why it was or was not called?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No it is so obvious, tell us why they are travels. It is one thing to say it is a travel, it is another to be specific as to why.

Peace

Which way do you want it?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Fair enough but if that's the case, based on the rule book, it would be nice to know why. If they just plain old missed them then hey, that's the way life goes. We all do but I'm pretty sure we all try not to.



JRut, I think we as a group analyze everything critically on this board not just travels. It just happens to be the violation that's called - and possibly seen - most often other than a ball going OOB. It's not some sort of tragedy or conspiracy. There are just some plays where we wonder how it was missed.

I'm just baffled why the two travel discussions - this and the Syracuse/Indiana clip - have become so argumentative. Either the players did or they didn't. Some plays may have more debate than others based on camera angles but to add on to what BayState said in the other thread the goal of posting these is to get better.

All basketball plays can be up for debate. We debate block-charge plays (which have clear rules), we debate Flagrant/Intentional Fouls, not sure why we cannot debate travels. There are rules that apply in those cases too. It seems simple to me, but I guess to others they know best.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No it is so obvious, tell us why they are travels. It is one thing to say it is a travel, it is another to be specific as to why. Because once I tell you why I feel they might not be traveling you will just say I was wrong and ignoring the obvious, so why bother?

Peace

All 3 involve very different looks at the same basic principal. A player holding the ball lifts the pivot and returns it to the floor. None of these plays is close to being legal to me. I set out to watch this game looking for examples. All 3 of these jumped off the screen to me in real time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

All 3 involve very different looks at the same basic principal. A player holding the ball lifts the pivot and returns it to the floor. None of these plays is close to being legal to me. I set out to watch this game looking for examples. All 3 of these jumped off the screen to me in real time.

Again, these are not whether they jumped off the screen to you, you obviously think there is no debate of your position. And most of all they were not called to your liking, so there must be some reason they were not called. I guess the only explanation was you were right and everyone on the game was totally wrong.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, these are not whether they jumped off the screen to you, you obviously think there is no debate of your position.

Peace

And obviously you think there is, so what is it?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, these are not whether they jumped off the screen to you, you obviously think there is no debate of your position.

Peace

In all seriousness, and no disrespect intended. Why do you think they aren't traveling? If you think they aren't.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

In all seriousness, and no disrespect intended. Why do you think they aren't traveling? If you think they aren't.

If you are asking about the plays in question, I do not see possession when you touch the ball. I do not expect a player to have a pivot foot until they actually catch the ball. And I saw two similar plays and if I recall no one said which one was a travel and why.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

For me, the trend is disturbing. More and more D1 officials seem to be laying off the travels reviewed by these three clips. I agree...all three are travels. Most disturbing is the way the spin move is ignored. As a HS official, I have seen it increase at my level. I make a point of calling it when I see it. Not all my fellow officials are as vigilant. So now, the trend established at D1 is becoming prevalent in HS. I make a call and I get the "What did I do" routine.

Why does this bother me? BECAUSE IT IS A DEPARTURE FROM THE FREAKIN' RULES! College is becoming more like the NBE...and now it's creeping into the HS game.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bad zebra

for me, the trend is disturbing. More and more d1 officials seem to be laying off the travels reviewed by these three clips. I agree...all three are travels. Most disturbing is the way the spin move is ignored. As a hs official, i have seen it increase at my level. I make a point of calling it when i see it. Not all my fellow officials are as vigilant. So now, the trend established at d1 is becoming prevalent in hs. I make a call and i get the "what did i do" routine.

Why does this bother me? Because it is a departure from the freakin' rules! College is becoming more like the nbe...and now it's creeping into the hs game.

+1

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

For me, the trend is disturbing. More and more D1 officials seem to be laying off the travels reviewed by these three clips. I agree...all three are travels. Most disturbing is the way the spin move is ignored. As a HS official, I have seen it increase at my level. I make a point of calling it when I see it. Not all my fellow officials are as vigilant. So now, the trend established at D1 is becoming prevalent in HS. I make a call and I get the "What did I do" routine.

Why does this bother me? BECAUSE IT IS A DEPARTURE FROM THE FREAKIN' RULES! College is becoming more like the NBE...and now it's creeping into the HS game.

Then you must be disturbed by all the travels that HS officials call that are not travels. High dribbles, fumbled ball called a travel. Man I wish I had a penny every time I see a high dribble called illegal in HS. That is also a departure of the rules. And I really hope that you are not equating a complaining player to what happens at other levels. College players say less than anyone in basketball to officials. They know they cannot act up. You think Jim Burr, Teddy Valentine or any other big name that will be around a lot longer than most of these kids is going to put up with some kid yelling at them?

And funny there is an NBE reference to what happens at the lower levels. That is rich after all the self-righteous ranting about travels I have read over the years and the NBA has a different set of rules or standards to what they consider a travel.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

For me, the trend is disturbing. More and more D1 officials seem to be laying off the travels reviewed by these three clips. I agree...all three are travels. Most disturbing is the way the spin move is ignored. As a HS official, I have seen it increase at my level. I make a point of calling it when I see it. Not all my fellow officials are as vigilant. So now, the trend established at D1 is becoming prevalent in HS. I make a call and I get the "What did I do" routine.

Why does this bother me? BECAUSE IT IS A DEPARTURE FROM THE FREAKIN' RULES! College is becoming more like the NBE...and now it's creeping into the HS game.

Will you be consistent and start calling NCAA basketball some silly name/acronym like people do with the NBA?