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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:20am
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The 2 narratives on stealing/reaching seems unfair for the offense. An accidental hit can sometimes be sufficient to cause the ball handler to loose the ball/affect his shots. I'm guessing if it's a minor contact and the defender doesn't get any advantage out of it it's ok. But if it's enough to affect the ball handler it should be a foul.

Then again i know there's the legendary "The Hand(s) in contact of the ball is part of the ball & it's legal to hit the ball rule hence it's legal to hit the hand in contact with the ball."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post


It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler or a shooter on that player's hand that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul.

Reaching in is not a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. The mere act of reaching in, by itself, is nothing. If illegal contact does occur, it’s probably a holding foul, an illegal use of hands foul, or a hand check foul. When a player, in order to stop the clock, does not make a legitimate play for the ball, holds, pushes or grabs away from the ball, or uses undue roughness, the foul is an intentional foul.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:47pm
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Don't confuse incidental contact with accidental contact. The two terms are not synonymous. While it may seem unfair, it's the rule, as long as the hand is in contact with the ball.

And as Billy's list alludes to, there is never a "reaching" foul (contrary to one of your questions). A foul may be called for illegal contact (either with the hands or with the body), but never for "reaching."

Not that it isn't sometimes called that way, but it shouldn't be.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
there is never a "reaching" foul (contrary to one of your questions). A foul may be called for illegal contact (either with the hands or with the body), but never for "reaching."
One of my favorite in-game comebacks to use:

Coach: "He was reaching!"
Me: "Yes, he was."
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
One of my favorite in-game comebacks to use: Coach: "He was reaching!" Me: "Yes, he was."
You're much too nice. With some coaches, I'm a little more sarcastic:
Coach: "He was reaching!"
Me: "So?"
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:53pm
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"You gotta call the reach."

"Ok, it's a reach."
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:05pm
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I have said some of those things above and I have also said, "Reaching is not a foul" and walk away.

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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:10pm
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"Coach, I haven't called a 'reach' in years."
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
"Reaching is not a foul" and walk away.
That's usually my response.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:49pm
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so when will a illegal contact be called when the defender hits the ball handler's hand in contact with the ball to steal the ball, since the ball is part of hand rule still applies & it is ok to hit the hand that is in contact with the ball.

or indeed it's ok to slap the hand the ball is on as hard as you want?

if a person goes for a layup or shot, it's ok to slap the hand holding the ball as hard as possible to block the shot?
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:02pm
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The key is to judge whether the contact was incidental to an attempt to play the ball. If he only hits the hand, I'm not likely to see it anyway. If the hand is on the ball, the two are indistinguishable in real speed, as well as by rule.

If, for whatever reason, you can judge the player purposefully struck the hand and wasn't trying to play the ball, you could conceivably still call a foul.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:07pm
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Contact with the hand is legal if it is "only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and incidental to an attempt to play the ball."


No foul.

Conceivably, if a defender obviously intentionally makes a point of slapping the hand "as hard as possible" it could be an intentional foul.

I have never seen this call, but if indeed one's intent was to slap anything "as hard as possible" it might tend to be difficult to confine this contact only to the hand.

I would advise against attempting to use this as strategy.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:15pm
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so can i conclude that it is legal to make a steal by hitting the ballhandlers hand that is in contact with the ball no matter what the reason is, which includes slapping the back of the hand that is in contact with the ball to make it loose as hard as possible.

and when you block a shot you can do whatever you want with the offensive hand as long as it's touching the ball, so if a person jump shoots i can easily deflects his shot by running from behind and slapping his backhand hard as it would be more difficult to just block the ball from behind since the hand is in between you and the ball.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:20pm
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You're obviously trying to make a point here. Not sure what it is. You have read the rule, which is not that complicated, now draw your own conclusion from it.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:29pm
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i'm not making a point, just wanna make sure the scenario i made is legal so i can go all out slapping people's balling hand hard to get steals & blocks.

i play pick up games and i usually go for clean steals & blocks where i don't hit player's hand. but being able to hit them makes everything much easier. especially blocking jump shots from behind them.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Contact with the hand is legal if it is "only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and incidental to an attempt to play the ball."

Do you know the meaning of the word incidental?
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