illegal dribble?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I respectfully disagree. By definition, batting or pushing the ball to the floor could be either a dribble or a pass. The continuing action determines if it's a dribble or pass. If the player does not touch it again (in other words another player is the next to touch), it's a pass.

-Josh

It's a judgment call. A pass, by definition, is "to another player."

If a player drops the ball straight to the floor, another player is not involved. Therefore, in my judgment, this is not a pass. By default, it becomes a dribble, which, in this case, is a violation.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It's a judgment call. A pass, by definition, is "to another player."

If a player drops the ball straight to the floor, another player is not involved. Therefore, in my judgment, this is not a pass. By default, it becomes a dribble, which, in this case, is a violation.

I understand that stance and I'm not saying that it's wrong. After the offense elevates and releases the ball, they are essentially at a disadvantage because only 4 of their players may touch the ball. I believe we, as officials, neutralize a defensive advantage they have earned by playing good defense. Any thoughts?

-Josh

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I understand that stance and I'm not saying that it's wrong. After the offense elevates and releases the ball, they are essentially at a disadvantage because only 4 of their players may touch the ball. I believe we, as officials, neutralize a defensive advantage they have earned by playing good defense. Any thoughts?

-Josh

Actually, if you're asking me, none of their players may touch the ball because it is now dead.

This official calls the violation which was created by the good defense.

[HawkeyeCubP]

This was a question in the IAABO test this year. I answered violation initially, but was persuaded otherwise by the answer key.

[just another ref]

Answer keys are sometimes wrong.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Answer keys are sometimes wrong.

This one wasn't. The play is basically as follows:

"A1, in control of the ball, who has not used a dribble, jumps off both feet into the air, then drops/releases the ball to his/her side. The official rules a legal play. Is the official correct?"

The answer, despite what many of you are suggesting, is in fact "yes," which is what jdmara is suggesting could be the ruling depending on the situation. The reason the answer is yes is because it does depend on what else is happening on the court around A1. If, for example, A2 is nearby and comes over and grabs the ball before or after a bounce or two, it wasn't the start of a dribble.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

This one wasn't. The play is basically as follows:

"A1, in control of the ball, who has not used a dribble, jumps off both feet into the air, then drops/releases the ball to his/her side. The official rules a legal play. Is the official correct?"

The answer, despite what many of you are suggesting, is in fact "yes," which is what jdmara is suggesting could be the ruling depending on the situation. The reason the answer is yes is because it does depend on what else is happening on the court around A1. If, for example, A2 is nearby and comes over and grabs the ball before or after a bounce or two, it wasn't the start of a dribble.

You're missing my point. The only valid answer to the question is "unknown" or "so far". You may not know what it is until something else happens. But, if it is a dribble, it was, by definition, so the moment it left the hand. You just have to wait in order to know. The question is incomplete. If it it turns out that it was a dribble, the actual violation occurred when it was released. Returning to the hand just confirms that it was a dribble.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Answer keys are sometimes wrong.

So are forum members.

[Adam]

Just because a player throws a pass to an empty spot does not mean it wasn't a pass. The do it all the time out of ignorance and/or desperation. In the OP, I'm not calling it until the player touches it again and confirms that it was a dribble. If the erstwhile shooter doesn't even try to touch it, it was a pass.

This isn't to say I haven't blown this play out of anticipation.