30 point rule

[rainmaker]

Nationals are for the players not the refs. Yes, you may go because you derive a benefit from working hihg level games with high level refs and players.

We, on the other hand, work all year with the goal of going to nationals and playing the best in the country. We welcome the chance to play great team, and if we get blown out, so what. We are learning the entire time. We learn more toward the end after we have adjusted to the team we are playing. We play interim scores, play to go five minutes and cut into a margin, etc...

Coach, you are absolutely correct, and the top refs take that attitude, too, of working to do higher levels, and taking full advantage of every opportunity. I know Nevada Ref has expressed similar views in other posts. I expect he is just feeling cranky from the heat. Who wouldn't!?!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
not the refs. Yes, you may go because you derive a benefit from working hihg level games with high level refs and players.

Unfortunately Coach, many officials do not take that attitude. Many think that if they go do a game, it is only about them. Yes, we have a right to know what we are getting into, but after the game starts and we have already agreed to be there, we should just officiate the game and go home afterwards. But in my experience (as Juulie said), the top or good officials are just looking to work and get better. They do not worry about those kind of things in the first place. At least not the ones that want to move up or maintain their position. But that is why the cream rises to the top I guess.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

We, on the other hand, shell out nearly $10,000 for a team and entourage to travel to and stay one week in Florida.

Well there's your problem right there, coach. You & your team have an *ENTOURAGE*. The closest thing we refs have to an (ahem) *ENTOURAGE* is an observer in the stands and some assistant coach on the bench, both of whom who watch every damn thing we do.

[Nevadaref]

To clarify a couple of items:
1. Anyone who joins a player's club at any of the casinos on the LV strip can get great rates on the rooms. I joined five of them in the past two years and just check who has the best deal before I go. FYI I stayed at the Sahara this time.
2. I truly have come to respect HawksCoach on this forum. His viewpoints and thoughts have always been posted with class and intelligence.
3. It seems to me that his main problem with the mercy rule is that it cheats his team out of the gametime for which they have paid. I was merely pointing out that there are other people besides players and coaches whose time is part of these games. I am thinking of officials, scorekeepers, timers, school security, gym administrators, on-site trainers, etc.
While the teams pay for the bulk of expenses of any tournament, I'm not convinced that this should give them more say than anyone else involved when it comes to how long the game should be. It is my opinion that the team pays its entry fee for the opportunity to compete, if they show that they are incapable of doing this, some form of mercy should be applied to the contest. Remember, I am from Nevada where we have Mills Lane to stop the fight!
I believe that the mercy rule is a sort of compromise to these people. If the contest is no longer competitive it shortens the amount of time these people have to give.
4. Lastly, HawksCoach has provided the way that his team treats being on the losing end of a blowout. As usual he takes a first-class approach. I'm sure that his team continues to play hard, execute its system, and tries to improve. In this situation, the officials should be happy to continue working and learning. Unfortunately, I doubt that most teams do this. We have all seem games in which the losing team simply gives up, or worse gets frustrated, and resorts to cheap shots. If all teams handled the blowout likes HawksCoach we would not need a mercy rule, but the sad fact is that the majority do not. In addition, we must consider the blowout from the winning team's viewpoint. Is this team learning anything from a game that they are winning by 30? Are they just fooling around and showing off? If it were my team, I would not want to play anymore than I had to due to the risk of injury. Who wants to lose their 6th or 7th man, let alone a starter, for the rest of the tournament to an ankle sprain in a game that it no longer meaningful?
Just my thoughts. As always, HawksCoach, your replies are eagerly awaited.

[tnroundballref]

HawksCoach,

Did you know before you went to the tourney that there would be a mercy rule? If you did, why are we even having this discussion. I would suggest that you take into consideration the mercy rule before you make arrangements to go to any tournaments. If you didn't know, I would suggest that you make it a priority to ask the tourney director if they will be using the mercy rule prior to registration. There are lots of tournaments for you to choose from. If you don't like the way a touney is set up, there are other tournaments that will probably accomadate. I guess my point is, ask before you go and if it's not the type tourney you are looking for....keep looking.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by tnroundballref
HawksCoach,

Did you know before you went to the tourney that there would be a mercy rule? If you did, why are we even having this discussion. I would suggest that you take into consideration the mercy rule before you make arrangements to go to any tournaments. If you didn't know, I would suggest that you make it a priority to ask the tourney director if they will be using the mercy rule prior to registration. There are lots of tournaments for you to choose from. If you don't like the way a touney is set up, there are other tournaments that will probably accomadate. I guess my point is, ask before you go and if it's not the type tourney you are looking for....keep looking.

TN Roundball
Yes, I knew this in advance. No, it would not keep me from attending a tournament. I have expressed here that I prefer the NCAA FT rules to the NFHS, but it doesn't cause me to look only for tourneys that do NCAA rules. This forum has raised the issue of the point spread rule, and I am voicing an opinion that I believe it inappropriate for a national championship tourney.

Nevada - I understand that there are many participants. All but the teams are paid, the teams are paying to play. So I don't frankly care too terribly much what the scorers, timers, refs, etc., think of blowout games. Not trying to be harsh, it's just that the HS teams that ran our gyms are funding their program for the year and the refs are getting paid and good experience. And we are providing the cash and the experience.

Your best case is the issue of injuries. I know that I have gotten players hurt in blowout games and you hate to see it happen. But I also get them hurt in practice and in overtime of tight games. I actually liked the running clock when ahead and I had two games that day because it rested my players for the afternoon. But I would prefer the rule not be used. Had we not had the running clock, I would have given some of my bench players a real good run in the 2nd half, which helps the players and the team. As for coaches that don't know how to use blowouts to their advantage, they have many issues to deal with and rules won't help them. We don't make rules to save teams from themselves with respect to poor coaching or lack of discipline. The best coaches are always coaching, the best teams are always learning.

[Rick Vietti]

The use of a "Running Clock" for youth basketball follows the trend set up by other team sports.

I believe the use of these type of measures by those putting together the rules is for "Sportsmanship." No one wants to see kids humiliated.

Baseball and Softball both have run rules for this purpose along with time limits. I have seen Football at youth levels use a running clock for point differences.

These rules are put in by those running the tournaments and leagues and we as officials show up as contracted and officiate by the rules given.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Rick Vietti
No one wants to see kids humiliated.

I know a few coaches you could email this line to.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Rick Vietti


These rules are put in by those running the tournaments and leagues and we as officials show up as contracted and officiate by the rules given.

Agree 100% with this. But, if there's no mercy rule in place we should not be enforcing one of our own by calling funny fouls & telling the coach to back off.

It's just part of the job.