2013 IHSA 2A Boys' Final...Ballgame99's Plays to Consider

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

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You can sign up for a free Digital membership. That's how I read it.

[fullor30]

#6 whistle way before charge call? did trail possibly have contact on intial drive?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

In all fairness, in many of the plays we are missing the endline camera view, which is extremely valuable. I think the Seth Davis/John Adams block-charge presentation a while back demonstrated that in spades. There were plays on that video that looked like sure-thing PC when they were actually anything but.

The endline camera is valuable but I don't think we need it on these plays. The Davis/Adams video had plays that were much closer IMO than the ones here. And I think video is a great tool for all of us and I try to use it for my own evaluation whenever possible. 99% of my games have no endline camera view yet I think I'm still able to grade accuracy fairly well.

I also thought many of the defenders in the video were flopping or borderline flopping. On a couple, the offensive player was definitely initiating, but the defenders were also going down like sacks of hammers with only light to moderate contact.

I'm not seeing the flopping that some others are seeing. Play #2 was a flop and correctly no-called. On play #3 there may be a little embellishment by the defender but there is significant contact to the defender's upper body and not what I would consider a flop, or really even close to a flop.

In that early play that you disagree on the block call, it looks like the defender adjusts after the shooter is airborne - they COULD have just turned to brace for contact, which is legal, but it's tough to tell from the faraway wide angle.

Not sure which play you are talking about here. I'm guessing #2 or #5. #2 was a no call that was clearly a block IMO as the defender never had LGP and moved toward and into the path of the airborne shooter.

#5 I think Adam hit it on the head in that the defender was legal and maintained it even with the adjustment. And disagree that it's tough to tell with the angle we have here.

Originally Posted by Adam

Disagree. If anything, his legal backward motion reduces contact to the point where a no-call would be acceptable. No way is a block the right call on this.

Agree again. I don't see that as a flop, let alone enough of one where I would make up a rule and call a block.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by fullor30

#6 whistle way before charge call? did trail possibly have contact on intial drive?

Nope...don't worry about the timing of the whistles/commentary. I just noticed the audio & video are out of sync (I tend to watch these with the sound down). My apologies that I didn't pick up on that as I was creating the clips otherwise I would've just muted all the sound.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by fullor30

#6 whistle way before charge call? did trail possibly have contact on intial drive?

I think the audio was off. I had several of the plays where I heard the whistle well before the contact but the visible signals from the officials were after.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think the audio was off. I had several of the plays where I heard the whistle well before the contact but the visible signals from the officials were after.

Yeah, Jetmetfan mentioned it another thread. Let's get a new AV guy

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Yeah, Jetmetfan mentioned it another thread. Let's get a new AV guy

Hey...make it a 3-man crew with me and APG and increase the fee

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by fullor30

#6 whistle way before charge call? did trail possibly have contact on intial drive?

I noticed that too. Thought it could have been an editing glitch or something. Since there was not a double whistle -- it went "whistle", "contact", "PC signal" -- I think it was the lead that blew the whistle. If the trail had something, we would have heard a second whistle from the lead. Also, the baseline view (starting at 2:04) has the train in the background during the drive and there appears to be no call from that offial.

Is it possible that the lead had a quick whistle/touch foul on the drive, but after seeing the collision, went with the more obvious contact?

[deecee]

Irrespective of what the calls were or should have been, and this being only the first quarter, this game looks like it is a steaming locomotive that is heading about to turn into a runaway from the crew.

[Rich]

When I see both players go down after multiple crashes and no whistles being put on the play, my first thought is that the crew just wasn't mentally prepared to work the game -- or that they were a bit overwhelmed with the assignment.

I could be wrong, of course, but that's my first reaction.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by Rich

When I see both players go down after multiple crashes and no whistles being put on the play, my first thought is that the crew just wasn't mentally prepared to work the game -- or that they were a bit overwhelmed with the assignment.

I could be wrong, of course, but that's my first reaction.

My first reaction is something that has happened to me. You let the first B/C go as a NC. Then next one is at other end and if you call it you will have one of coaches (regardless of call) complain that you did not call it at other end, so you make another NC for "consistency" rather than admitting that a mistake was made first time. In this game it looked like they were "consistent" about 8 times, which makes them "consistenly wrong" 8 times.

[KMBReferee]

Play #1: PC. Clear displacement. That wasn't a flop.
Play #2: Block. Regardless, you gotta have a call there when the shooter is wiped out.
Play #3: No call, but I see why he did it. If the lead stepped in, I think he would have seen it differently.
Play #4: Travel all day long. A couple of years ago our State Sup of Officials - who was also a long-time college official - went over spins and says in the HS game if the dribbler tries to spin that 9 times out of 10 it's going to be a travel. He's probably right.
Play #5: PC. Does the shooter have to sit on the guy's face before a whistle's blown?
Play #6: PC, good call. Enough contact was inside the torso in order to justify it, unlike play #3

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

Play #1: PC. Clear displacement. That wasn't a flop.
Play #2: Block. Regardless, you gotta have a call there when the shooter is wiped out.
Play #3: No call, but I see why he did it. If the lead stepped in, I think he would have seen it differently.
Play #4: Travel all day long. A couple of years ago our State Sup of Officials - who was also a long-time college official - went over spins and says in the HS game if the dribbler tries to spin that 9 times out of 10 it's going to be a travel. He's probably right.
Play #5: PC. Does the shooter have to sit on the guy's face before a whistle's blown?
Play #6: PC, good call. Enough contact was inside the torso in order to justify it, unlike play #3

Play #2 - combined with a similar play in the previous video post on this game - may be the most baffling. Two airborne shooters get wiped out by kids under the hoop who don't have LGP and there's not even a thought of a whistle? Some of the others you can see where they might have been missed but those two plays were train wrecks that any one of them could've called and nobody would've complained. That's what makes you wonder whether everyone's head was in it from the start.