Clip(s): Kansas v. Iowa State

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by big jake

Looks like Tom and Bert will have a date or two open in the next few weeks and will be out of the Big 12 tournament. What else can Shaw do to them?

He could introduce them to "Sam the Owl"

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Not sure if you are intentionally trying to twist things around or what. As I stated more than once I agree that the L should have pinched and that the C should have worked for a better angle. But they didnt.

So what I disagree with is your statements that there was no way the L could see the play or have a whistle given the position he was in AND I disagree with your statement that the C is the person with the best opportunity to see the contact on this play.

It is interesting that that the 3rd official was not included. Would have been nice had he come in and saved the crew but he's the least culpable of the three IMO.

I honestly don't think we are disagreeing very much at all.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I honestly don't think we are disagreeing very much at all.

I disagree with this statement.

I think it's clear where we disagree but it really doesnt matter so I'm moving on.

Will be interesting to see how O'Neill and Smith's schedules are affected going forward and I would love to have access to their post game and subsequent conversation(s) with Shaw.

Seems to me like they froze both physically and mentally and we'll never know why. We all have moments on the court we'd like to do over. This just happened to be on ESPN on a Monday night with a relatively light NCAAM schedule.

Aw well. I can only hope to one day have the opportunity to be in these guys position and have people on this forum making multiple page threads about my calls or no-calls.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I disagree with this statement.

I think it's clear where we disagree but it really doesnt matter so I'm moving on.

Will be interesting to see how O'Neill and Smith's schedules are affected going forward and I would love to have access to their post game and subsequent conversation(s) with Shaw.

Seems to me like they froze both physically and mentally and we'll never know why. We all have moments on the court we'd like to do over. This just happened to be on ESPN on a Monday night with a relatively light NCAAM schedule.

Aw well. I can only hope to one day have the opportunity to be in these guys position and have people on this forum making multiple page threads about my calls or no-calls.

Smart-a$$!

I really don't think it is a career killer for either of them. Will they lose a few Big 12 games this season? Yes...maybe the Big 12 tournament? I doubt that it will cost them a post-season berth if they had one. If it does, one of the other conferences they work for will pick them up.

And I would love to hear their post game thoughts and their breakdown of that play also. Maybe in a few years they will share at a camp or something.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Smart-a$$!

I really don't think it is a career killer for either of them. Will they lose a few Big 12 games this season? Yes...maybe the Big 12 tournament? I doubt that it will cost them a post-season berth if they had one. If it does, one of the other conferences they work for will pick them up.

And I would love to hear their post game thoughts and their breakdown of that play also. Maybe in a few years they will share at a camp or something.

Yeah I would think/hope that this one play is not going to impact either one beyond losing a couple of Big 12 games this year.

And I just watched the play again during halftime of the IU-Minnesota game. I think it boils down to positioning. Neither the L or C worked to get a good angle on the play and it cost them big time in terms of not having a needed whistle. Then Smith compounds it by putting the kid on the line with a very marginal call after passing on a collision.

But we all know things look different from different angles. I think the C has no idea about the LGP status of the secondary defender b/c he couldnt even see him and the L had a poor angle and guess he did not appreciate exactly how much the offense went through the defender.

They still made around $2500 for this game, that should feed the family for a day or two?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by big jake

They still made around $2500 for this game, that should feed the family for a day or two?

They probably made more than that based on tier level payment and one has a couple of kids working at the D1 level, so he is fine feeding his family.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nikki

The biggest problem is not if the NCAAM or NCAAW coverage is better (I like NCAAW ) it's that NOT ONE of the three was in position to referee this play. L should've pinched, C should have at least been FTLE (probably another step or two down since this play originated from his primary I believe he should have stayed with it) and T should have been at least at the 28ft line and could have came with a strong whistle and taking a few steps toward the basket-he actually might have had the best angle. Not one of them was in position to referee anything that happened with less than 10 seconds on the clock in a close ball game. To me that is the biggest issue.

Go get 'em, Nikki!

Apart from this, I'm surprised as others are that only two crew memebrs are being disciplined. I would've thought the conference would've said all of them catch heat or none of them. The guy who was the T on that play was the new L on the Withey/Young foul call and had a whistle on it, though he wasn't the one who reported the foul. In any event, it seems all three had a role in this one during the final 30 seconds of regulation.

[JRutledge]

Big 12 comments on the calls in question

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Not necessarily. There's stuff we do I haven't been thrilled with at times - giong tableside on foul calls, which we did before NCAAM, comes to mind - but having the C as primary on a play like this makes sense to me.

The C in an NCAAW game would've maneuvered themselves to the FTLE to make sure they could see it...an issue I see was brought up in some of the previous posts.

If you watched the UF/Tenn game last night you have seen great examples of officials working a "low" C instead of wandering off towards the 28' line.

[bob jenkins]

I'm "sure" it's two getting discilined because even though T could have saved the crew it wasn't really his call. That is, he could have improved his evaluation by making the call, but doesn't get a poorer evaluation by not making it.

[ballgame99]

PC's don't get much easier than that one. What I don't get is why the L would pass on that much contact, and THEN be quick on the whistile to call the illegal contact on the ISU defender while they are on the floor. If the crew had just swallowed the whistle for the whole sequence it would probably be getting less pub than it is now.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If you watched the UF/Tenn game last night you have seen great examples of officials working a "low" C instead of wandering off towards the 28' line.

I don't get people that work a high C. What's the benefit, really? FT line to FT line is only 64 feet and unlike when you're the T, there's no huge hurry to stay in front of the play.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't get people that work a high C. What's the benefit, really? FT line to FT line is only 64 feet and unlike when you're the T, there's no huge hurry to stay in front of the play.

+1

And, IF an official is going to work a "high C", it would be best to at least "step down" on plays that originate from the C's PCA.

[#olderthanilook]

Btw, I couldn't disagree more with the notion that the officials "blew the game" for ISU.