Over and back???

[rekent]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal

But the "jump ball" ended when it was touched by a non-jumper. 6-3-8.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by rekent

But the "jump ball" ended when it was touched by a non-jumper. 6-3-8.

True ... but I wasn't trying to suggest that as the only criteria. Just an extra little caveat.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rekent

But the "jump ball" ended when it was touched by a non-jumper. 6-3-8.

True, but when does control get established?

[APG]

I wouldn't have a backcourt violation.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by Adam

True, but when does control get established?

I wasn't trying to imply there'd be a backcourt, I say tip is not enough for control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rekent

I wasn't trying to imply there'd be a backcourt, I say tip is not enough for control.

I was simply pointing out the intent behind PG's reference.

[bauzer714]

If he/she intentionally pushed the ball to the back court, it is control. The ball went where the player intended.

Over and Back

[APG]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

If he/she intentionally pushed the ball to the back court, it is control. The ball went where the player intended.

Over and Back

Intent has nothing to do with it...players intentionally bat rebounds into the backcourt all the time and no one would imagine calling a backcourt violation there if a teammate were to recover the ball (and rightfully so).

The only question is as to whether there is player control or not is whether the player was dribbling (no pertinent in this play) or holding the ball.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

If he/she intentionally pushed the ball to the back court, it is control. The ball went where the player intended.

Over and Back

That's a nice, generic use of the word "control", but it is not the basketball definition of "control".

If you're going to use your definition of control, then we would have to say the initial tap by the jumper established team control.

[MD Longhorn]

"Control Tip" LOL.... like "Slap bunt" in softball. Two words, mutually exclusive, jammed together to describe something near the border of both.

A slap is not a bunt - it is a type of hit. A bunt cannot be a slap.

A tip is not a type of control - it is the absence of control. Control means possession, and cannot be a tip.

[bauzer714]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That's a nice, generic use of the word "control", but it is not the basketball definition of "control".

If you're going to use your definition of control, then we would have to say the initial tap by the jumper established team control.

The rule book does say that no player control exists during a jump ball. The player may not have 'control' but the team does. A team has the control during a pass. I would argue a 'controlled tip' is absolutely a pass. Ball location in 4.4.2 puts the 'location' of the ball in the FC, then control tipped (passed) to a teammate in the BC. Thus, O&B.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

If he/she intentionally pushed the ball to the back court, it is control. The ball went where the player intended.

Over and Back

I'm betting you don't have a rule book.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

If he/she intentionally pushed the ball to the back court, it is control. The ball went where the player intended.

Over and Back

The only time I would try and gather intent was if I was debating between intentional flagrant foul and a simple intentional foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

The only time I would try and gather intent was if I was debating between intentional flagrant foul and a simple intentional foul.

Sigh, which does not exist, but don't let that stop you from giving advice.