Over and back???

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

If he/she intentionally pushed the ball to the back court, it is control. The ball went where the player intended.

Over and Back

I'm betting you don't have a rule book.

[bauzer714]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That's a nice, generic use of the word "control", but it is not the basketball definition of "control".

If you're going to use your definition of control, then we would have to say the initial tap by the jumper established team control.

The rule book does say that no player control exists during a jump ball. The player may not have 'control' but the team does. A team has the control during a pass. I would argue a 'controlled tip' is absolutely a pass. Ball location in 4.4.2 puts the 'location' of the ball in the FC, then control tipped (passed) to a teammate in the BC. Thus, O&B.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

The rule book does say that no player control exists during a jump ball. The player may not have 'control' but the team does. A team has the control during a pass. I would argue a 'controlled tip' is absolutely a pass. Ball location in 4.4.2 puts the 'location' of the ball in the FC, then control tipped (passed) to a teammate in the BC. Thus, O&B.

It also says no "team control" exists during the jump ball. How does team control get established? When a player establishes player control or when the ball is placed at his disposal for a FT or TI. None of those events has occurred yet.

TC has not been established.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

If he/she intentionally pushed the ball to the back court, it is control. The ball went where the player intended.

Over and Back

The only time I would try and gather intent was if I was debating between intentional flagrant foul and a simple intentional foul.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

The rule book does say that no player control exists during a jump ball. The player may not have 'control' but the team does. A team has the control during a pass. I would argue a 'controlled tip' is absolutely a pass. Ball location in 4.4.2 puts the 'location' of the ball in the FC, then control tipped (passed) to a teammate in the BC. Thus, O&B.

You cannot establish team control without having player control. Ball gets tipped on the jump ball there is no player or team control until a player first gets control.


A tip and a pass are two different things. Simply batting a ball does not constitute control. If the ball comes to rest (palming) and the player throws the ball like most would a baseball then that's different. That is not a bat or a tip.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

The rule book does say that no player control exists during a jump ball. The player may not have 'control' but the team does. A team has the control during a pass. I would argue a 'controlled tip' is absolutely a pass. Ball location in 4.4.2 puts the 'location' of the ball in the FC, then control tipped (passed) to a teammate in the BC. Thus, O&B.

If there is no control to start with, how in the world can there suddenly be team control without there ever being any player control?? And to establish player control, there are very definite requirements...and tipping the ball does not meet those requirements.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

I would argue a 'controlled tip' is absolutely a pass.

During the controlled tip would you grant a request for a timeout? Whether player control exists during a controlled tip, or not, is a judgment call, and that's why we get paid the big bucks, at least here in the Constitution State.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

The only time I would try and gather intent was if I was debating between intentional flagrant foul and a simple intentional foul.

Sigh, which does not exist, but don't let that stop you from giving advice.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bauzer714

The rule book does say that no player control exists during a jump ball. The player may not have 'control' but the team does. A team has the control during a pass. I would argue a 'controlled tip' is absolutely a pass. Ball location in 4.4.2 puts the 'location' of the ball in the FC, then control tipped (passed) to a teammate in the BC. Thus, O&B.

You could argue that all you want and you would still be incorrect.
No backcourt violation is possible until a player, who is inbounds, either holds or dribbles the ball. There is nothing else to this.

[bauzer714]

Good points were definitely made here. I think you guys are right. I do stand corrected, this is not o&b.

[deecee]

Typed to fast - flagrant v. intentional. But that won't stop one member from being a nitpicking twit.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by deecee

Typed to fast - flagrant v. intentional. But that won't stop one member from being a nitpicking twit.

Interestingly enough, those nitpicking twits are usually the ones that get things handled properly when the sh!t hits the fan in a game.