Past History with a Coach

[VaTerp]

Back in December I had an interesting interaction with a Coach.

Early in the 4th quarter Coach B loudly complains for a traveling violation when A1 retrieved his own shot attempt that went over the basket. After getting him back in his box I quickly explain that's only a violation in the NBA to which he replied, "I coached D1, that's a universal rule." SMH

After this coach seemed to take personal issue with me. After complaining about something after I frickin put his kid on the line I was about to whack him, put the whistle in my mouth, and then decided against it as it was a 25 pt game. After taking the whistle out of my mouth I hear the coach mumble what I think was, "yeah, always stuntin." Translation- Basically implying I was trying to act tough as an official but wouldnt really T him up, or something to that effect. I could of gone ahead and whacked him then but thought, "No I'll just get him later."

A little over 2 minutes left in the game his kid makes a basket, Im C table side and coach turns to me, "If that was them you'd have put them on the line." Whack.

A few possessions later he stands for something and my partner reminds him of loss of box. At the 1:47 mark his kids is shooting FTs. I'm C opposite and notice Coach is staring directly at me. We go up and down the court a few times and I realize he is in his adjusting himself in his seat in an attempt to stare me down every where I go on the court. I consider tossing him but thought better of it. Game ends, we walk off the court and coach continues to stare at me as his team is lining up for post game handshake.

I report this to my assignor who says I'm sorry you had to go through that, I handled it correctly, and if he wants to act like a child we'll treat him like one. I said no need to apologize, not a big deal to me, just thought his behavior was inappropriate and that I should pass it along.

Last week I get a game assignment as the R for a district playoff game tomorrow night (this district starts earlier than others) and guess who the visiting and last place team is.

So the questions I have are:

When you'd had a situation like this with a coach, how would you characterize your next interaction with them? Obviously I'm going to keep it professional but how much shorter does your rope get? Anyone have an interesting stories about pre-game handshake or similar situations?

[just another ref]

Theoretically, past history means nothing. New day, new game. Realistically, you are a person with a memory and a subconscious mind. Do your best not to let this cloud your judgment and slant any call in either direction.

[Mark Padgett]

What JAR said. Just get it into your mind that you've never seen this coach before and start "from scratch". However, if he makes comments about the previous game, put them into the context of him saying those things about this game and act accordingly - because those comments are attacking your integrity as an official.

[OKREF]

Just act like nothing ever happened. Shake his hand, go call your game and if you have to take care of business just do it.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Theoretically, past history means nothing. New day, new game. Realistically, you are a person with a memory and a subconscious mind. Do your best not to let this cloud your judgment and slant any call in either direction.

Thanks, I'm not at all concerned about my judgement with calls on the court.

I'm moreso just thinking out loud about how short my leash will be if/when coach becomes vocal or has any histrionics on the sideline.

Also, thinking of pre-game with partners. I'm going to mention it as a FYI but also let them know that I'm not taking it personally and that the past is past and we are dealing with him tonight, etc.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Thanks, I'm not at all concerned about my judgement with calls on the court.

I'm moreso just thinking out loud about how short my leash will be if/when coach becomes vocal or has any histrionics on the sideline.

Also, thinking of pre-game with partners. I'm going to mention it as a FYI but also let them know that I'm not taking it personally and that the past is past and we are dealing with him tonight, etc.

Your leash should be the exact same length it always is...nice theory, but pretty hard to put into practice, I know. You really should not expect anything different from this coach in this game as you would from any other coach in any other game, or react any differently to this coach in this game as you would in any other game.

Good idea to let your partners know about it in pregame.

[just another ref]

A game like this will sometimes inspire you and improve your performance.

(I'll be damned if I'm gonna give this idiot ANYTHING to complain about tonight.)

[Camron Rust]

I've essentially has this happen twice in the last couple of years.

In the first case, I had a coach basically chase us from the court at the end (reported to the assignor rather than coming back out to issue a T). Next season, I had them on the road in a first round playoff game. They were a big underdog. The coach, at the pregame coaches meeting, gave me the biggest cold shoulder I've ever seen. He wouldn't even look at me. I expect it may be a long night. The game starts. A couple calls go his way. His team is shooting like the basket it 5' in diameter while the other team isn't. Things are going well for his team. By the end of Q1 he drops the "I'm not saying a word to you" act. The game goes smoothly and he is just fine. Moral...some coach's frustrations with you can be amplified by their frustration with how their team is playing. Just call the game and see what happens.

In the 2nd case, the first situation was in a summer league game where most of the coaches are just dads and sometimes assistants or jv coaches. The coach was being a fool and ended up getting tossed. He lies to another official at he facility in order to get my name. He lies to my assignor about what happened...not just embellished, but lies. He thinks I'm some rookie. I had never seen him before and didn't know he was a HS coach. I find out that he has a reputation in his area of being difficult. I then see him at a referee camp (combined with a HS tourney) later that summer where I'm an evaluator. He was a bit surprised at that. Next winter, I'm working the state championships and I have his team in the state quarter-finals. I know he can be trouble but I treat him the same as any other coach. He is cordial and doesn't say much of anything in the game...and they lose. He knew I'd have no problem dealing with his antic. In his next game in the consolation round, he gets T'd...par for the course...and probably deserved another. Moral of this story...when you properly deal with them when they do cross the line, they remember that and will usually behave in the future.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've essentially has this happen twice in the last couple of years.

In the first case, I had a coach basically chase us from the court at the end (reported to the assignor rather than coming back out to issue a T). Next season, I had them on the road in a first round playoff game. They were a big underdog. The coach, at the pregame coaches meeting, gave me the biggest cold shoulder I've ever seen. He wouldn't even look at me. I expect it may be a long night. The game starts. A couple calls go his way. His team is shooting like the basket it 5' in diameter while the other team isn't. Things are going well for his team. By the end of Q1 he drops the "I'm not saying a word to you" act. The game goes smoothly and he is just fine. Moral...some coach's frustrations with you can be amplified by their frustration with how their team is playing. Just call the game and see what happens.

In the 2nd case, the first situation was in a summer league game where most of the coaches are just dads and sometimes assistants or jv coaches. The coach was being a fool and ended up getting tossed. He lies to another official at he facility in order to get my name. He lies to my assignor about what happened...not just embellished, but lies. He thinks I'm some rookie. I had never seen him before and didn't know he was a HS coach. I find out that he has a reputation in his area of being difficult. I then see him at a referee camp (combined with a HS tourney) later that summer where I'm an evaluator. He was a bit surprised at that. Next winter, I'm working the state championships and I have his team in the state quarter-finals. I know he can be trouble but I treat him the same as any other coach. He is cordial and doesn't say much of anything in the game...and they lose. He know I'd have no problem dealing with his antic. In his next game in the consolation round, he gets T'd...par for the course...and probably deserved another. Moral of this story...when you properly deal with them when they do cross the line, they remember that and will usually behave in the future.

This is the type of thing I was looking for. Just wondering what others had experienced.

I've dealt with coaches I've Td up previously or had heated exchanges with, etc. and when I see them the next time, or when they are scouting another game or even off the court I've never thought twice about it. I've also had coaches apologize for their behavior and I always reply hey it's basketball, nothing personal.

But this one of the only times I've had a scholastic coach pull something like this and really seem to have a personal issue with me and I'm just curious about how he'll act when he sees me tonight.

Thanks for sharing the above and to everyone else for the reminders and words of wisdom.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

...But this one of the only times I've had a scholastic coach pull something like this and really seem to have a personal issue with me and I'm just curious about how he'll act when he sees me tonight...

Keep in mind that he has a lot more to lose tonight by acting like a jack azz than you do. Take the high road and let his behavior dictate his fate.

Good luck tonight.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Thanks, I'm not at all concerned about my judgement with calls on the court.

I'm moreso just thinking out loud about how short my leash will be if/when coach becomes vocal or has any histrionics on the sideline.

Also, thinking of pre-game with partners. I'm going to mention it as a FYI but also let them know that I'm not taking it personally and that the past is past and we are dealing with him tonight, etc.

He had better get exactly the same leash you would have given him had the previous game not happened... or you are not doing your job. And no, I would not bring it up in pre-game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

... And no, I would not bring it up in pre-game.

I am most definitely bringing up any past history with a coach to my partners in our pre-game

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I am most definitely bringing up any past history with a coach to my partners in our pre-game

Agreed. That's the kind of thing they need to know so that no one is taken by surprise by anything the Coach might say or do...don't need to have the "Man, that came out of nowhere!" "Well, actually..." conversation after something stupid happens.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

He had better get exactly the same leash you would have given him had the previous game not happened... or you are not doing your job.

Fair point but not realistic and not reflective of doing or not doing my job IMO. At the end of the day, a big part of a job as an official is dealing with people. The reality is that while you treat everyone fairly and professionally, you don't treat everyone the same or every situation the same.

So I'm not going out looking for a quick T or taking baggage from the last game into this one but I am going to be honest in saying that it may take a little less than it usually would for me to address his comments.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I learned from my first experience with this coach that I probably should have addressed him earlier and potentially avoided the situation that ensued had I done so. I will not repeat that again with him tonight while being mindful of not being the one who causes a problem.

And no, I would not bring it up in pre-game.

I've already decided that I will. I'm working with two guys I'm fairly comfortable with and previous experience with teams/coaches is a normal part of pre-games around here.

I do think it needs to be brought up in a thoughtful manner though which is one of the reasons I posted on here.

[johnny d]

I have different leashes for different coaches based on my past experiences with each of them. If I know a guy is a jackass and isnt going to stop once he gets started or is just going to whine and cry all game long about stupid stuff, I am going to shut him down quick. On the other hand, if the guy hardly ever says a word and coaches his team instead of complaining about officiating all game long, I will tend to give this guy a longer leash with the assumption that there is a good chance we missed something significant to get him fired up.