Past History with a Coach

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Theoretically, past history means nothing. New day, new game. Realistically, you are a person with a memory and a subconscious mind. Do your best not to let this cloud your judgment and slant any call in either direction.

Thanks, I'm not at all concerned about my judgement with calls on the court.

I'm moreso just thinking out loud about how short my leash will be if/when coach becomes vocal or has any histrionics on the sideline.

Also, thinking of pre-game with partners. I'm going to mention it as a FYI but also let them know that I'm not taking it personally and that the past is past and we are dealing with him tonight, etc.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Thanks, I'm not at all concerned about my judgement with calls on the court.

I'm moreso just thinking out loud about how short my leash will be if/when coach becomes vocal or has any histrionics on the sideline.

Also, thinking of pre-game with partners. I'm going to mention it as a FYI but also let them know that I'm not taking it personally and that the past is past and we are dealing with him tonight, etc.

Your leash should be the exact same length it always is...nice theory, but pretty hard to put into practice, I know. You really should not expect anything different from this coach in this game as you would from any other coach in any other game, or react any differently to this coach in this game as you would in any other game.

Good idea to let your partners know about it in pregame.

[just another ref]

A game like this will sometimes inspire you and improve your performance.

(I'll be damned if I'm gonna give this idiot ANYTHING to complain about tonight.)

[Camron Rust]

I've essentially has this happen twice in the last couple of years.

In the first case, I had a coach basically chase us from the court at the end (reported to the assignor rather than coming back out to issue a T). Next season, I had them on the road in a first round playoff game. They were a big underdog. The coach, at the pregame coaches meeting, gave me the biggest cold shoulder I've ever seen. He wouldn't even look at me. I expect it may be a long night. The game starts. A couple calls go his way. His team is shooting like the basket it 5' in diameter while the other team isn't. Things are going well for his team. By the end of Q1 he drops the "I'm not saying a word to you" act. The game goes smoothly and he is just fine. Moral...some coach's frustrations with you can be amplified by their frustration with how their team is playing. Just call the game and see what happens.

In the 2nd case, the first situation was in a summer league game where most of the coaches are just dads and sometimes assistants or jv coaches. The coach was being a fool and ended up getting tossed. He lies to another official at he facility in order to get my name. He lies to my assignor about what happened...not just embellished, but lies. He thinks I'm some rookie. I had never seen him before and didn't know he was a HS coach. I find out that he has a reputation in his area of being difficult. I then see him at a referee camp (combined with a HS tourney) later that summer where I'm an evaluator. He was a bit surprised at that. Next winter, I'm working the state championships and I have his team in the state quarter-finals. I know he can be trouble but I treat him the same as any other coach. He is cordial and doesn't say much of anything in the game...and they lose. He knew I'd have no problem dealing with his antic. In his next game in the consolation round, he gets T'd...par for the course...and probably deserved another. Moral of this story...when you properly deal with them when they do cross the line, they remember that and will usually behave in the future.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've essentially has this happen twice in the last couple of years.

In the first case, I had a coach basically chase us from the court at the end (reported to the assignor rather than coming back out to issue a T). Next season, I had them on the road in a first round playoff game. They were a big underdog. The coach, at the pregame coaches meeting, gave me the biggest cold shoulder I've ever seen. He wouldn't even look at me. I expect it may be a long night. The game starts. A couple calls go his way. His team is shooting like the basket it 5' in diameter while the other team isn't. Things are going well for his team. By the end of Q1 he drops the "I'm not saying a word to you" act. The game goes smoothly and he is just fine. Moral...some coach's frustrations with you can be amplified by their frustration with how their team is playing. Just call the game and see what happens.

In the 2nd case, the first situation was in a summer league game where most of the coaches are just dads and sometimes assistants or jv coaches. The coach was being a fool and ended up getting tossed. He lies to another official at he facility in order to get my name. He lies to my assignor about what happened...not just embellished, but lies. He thinks I'm some rookie. I had never seen him before and didn't know he was a HS coach. I find out that he has a reputation in his area of being difficult. I then see him at a referee camp (combined with a HS tourney) later that summer where I'm an evaluator. He was a bit surprised at that. Next winter, I'm working the state championships and I have his team in the state quarter-finals. I know he can be trouble but I treat him the same as any other coach. He is cordial and doesn't say much of anything in the game...and they lose. He know I'd have no problem dealing with his antic. In his next game in the consolation round, he gets T'd...par for the course...and probably deserved another. Moral of this story...when you properly deal with them when they do cross the line, they remember that and will usually behave in the future.

This is the type of thing I was looking for. Just wondering what others had experienced.

I've dealt with coaches I've Td up previously or had heated exchanges with, etc. and when I see them the next time, or when they are scouting another game or even off the court I've never thought twice about it. I've also had coaches apologize for their behavior and I always reply hey it's basketball, nothing personal.

But this one of the only times I've had a scholastic coach pull something like this and really seem to have a personal issue with me and I'm just curious about how he'll act when he sees me tonight.

Thanks for sharing the above and to everyone else for the reminders and words of wisdom.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

...But this one of the only times I've had a scholastic coach pull something like this and really seem to have a personal issue with me and I'm just curious about how he'll act when he sees me tonight...

Keep in mind that he has a lot more to lose tonight by acting like a jack azz than you do. Take the high road and let his behavior dictate his fate.

Good luck tonight.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Thanks, I'm not at all concerned about my judgement with calls on the court.

I'm moreso just thinking out loud about how short my leash will be if/when coach becomes vocal or has any histrionics on the sideline.

Also, thinking of pre-game with partners. I'm going to mention it as a FYI but also let them know that I'm not taking it personally and that the past is past and we are dealing with him tonight, etc.

He had better get exactly the same leash you would have given him had the previous game not happened... or you are not doing your job. And no, I would not bring it up in pre-game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

... And no, I would not bring it up in pre-game.

I am most definitely bringing up any past history with a coach to my partners in our pre-game

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I am most definitely bringing up any past history with a coach to my partners in our pre-game

Agreed. That's the kind of thing they need to know so that no one is taken by surprise by anything the Coach might say or do...don't need to have the "Man, that came out of nowhere!" "Well, actually..." conversation after something stupid happens.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

He had better get exactly the same leash you would have given him had the previous game not happened... or you are not doing your job.

Fair point but not realistic and not reflective of doing or not doing my job IMO. At the end of the day, a big part of a job as an official is dealing with people. The reality is that while you treat everyone fairly and professionally, you don't treat everyone the same or every situation the same.

So I'm not going out looking for a quick T or taking baggage from the last game into this one but I am going to be honest in saying that it may take a little less than it usually would for me to address his comments.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I learned from my first experience with this coach that I probably should have addressed him earlier and potentially avoided the situation that ensued had I done so. I will not repeat that again with him tonight while being mindful of not being the one who causes a problem.

And no, I would not bring it up in pre-game.

I've already decided that I will. I'm working with two guys I'm fairly comfortable with and previous experience with teams/coaches is a normal part of pre-games around here.

I do think it needs to be brought up in a thoughtful manner though which is one of the reasons I posted on here.

[johnny d]

I have different leashes for different coaches based on my past experiences with each of them. If I know a guy is a jackass and isnt going to stop once he gets started or is just going to whine and cry all game long about stupid stuff, I am going to shut him down quick. On the other hand, if the guy hardly ever says a word and coaches his team instead of complaining about officiating all game long, I will tend to give this guy a longer leash with the assumption that there is a good chance we missed something significant to get him fired up.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I am most definitely bringing up any past history with a coach to my partners in our pre-game

+1

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Agreed. That's the kind of thing they need to know so that no one is taken by surprise by anything the Coach might say or do...don't need to have the "Man, that came out of nowhere!" "Well, actually..." conversation after something stupid happens.

Indeed.

MDLonghorn- Curious as to your reasoning for NOT mentioning this.

Originally Posted by johnny d

I have different leashes for different coaches based on my past experiences with each of them. If I know a guy is a jackass and isnt going to stop once he gets started or is just going to whine and cry all game long about stupid stuff, I am going to shut him down quick. On the other hand, if the guy hardly ever says a word and coaches his team instead of complaining about officiating all game long, I will tend to give this guy a longer leash with the assumption that there is a good chance we missed something significant to get him fired up.

Exactly. A better and more descriptive version of the point I was making earlier.

[VaTerp]

Update:

Pre-game handshake- I look directly at HC as I'm shaking his hand and he kind of gave me a look like, "Oh $#!%, this guy." He was under the basket with his team for almost the entire warm up period so I don't think he realized who I was until that time.

Game was fairly close and competitive until about mid-way through of 4th quarter. Coach was fine. Very animated with his players but did not say a word to me the entire game. I think he asked one of my partners for a quick explanation after one play but other than that I did not see/hear a single thing directed toward us.

I should have whacked one of his kids with about a minute left but passed. Turned out to be much ado.....

[rockyroad]

But you and your partners were prepared, just in case...it's those times when we are not prepared for something when the sh!t hits the fan! Glad things went well.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

First a war story. Years ago when I was officiating women's in the Ohio Comm. Coll. Conf. I officiated a certain school from the OCCC in the NJCAA Regionals and the team got blown out and naturally, according the the HC, it was my fault that her team got blown out. And she made it a point to let me know that I would never work in her conference again. I let the league assignor know what she said. The next year I had her three times at home and three times on the road, .

When young officials come to me with questions about having a history with a coach, I tell them the same thing that many other posters in the thread have already said, officials forget the game as soon as it is over (and some of us forget the game before it is over, ). The problem is that many coaches think that we are always out to get them and never ever forgot. Ask any old timer and he will tell you of coaches that complain about a call he made against them from five years before. It is just part of the job.

MTD, Sr.