Game Winner?

[Raymond]

In the first half A2 has 2 dunks on alley oops.

In the 2nd half A1 tries to throw a long alley-oop from 35ft, A2 slips and never jumps, the ball hits the backboard and bounds into the backcourt.

This is a shot?

[rockyroad]

9.5 SITUATION:

A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent's backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each.

RULING: Legal in (a); a team's own backboard is considered part of that team's "equipment" and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

[Adam]

Note that it doesn't state whether it's considered a try.

In a, can A1 dribble again?
Or, in my scenario (which has gone unanswered), if a foul is committed by a player on team A between the time A1 throws the ball towards his backboard and when it's retrieved (by anyone), is it a TC foul?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: The action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thanks. But this doesn't help because the caseplay calls it a try from the get go. Some of us want to know if any ball thrown at one's own backboard is always considered a try.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; RULING: Legal in (a); a team's own backboard is considered part of that team's "equipment" and may be used. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

Now this is a very interesting caseplay. Interesting because the word "try" is never mentioned.

[icallfouls]

I think that Camron mentioned that a player can pick up their dribble and throw the ball against the backboard (could be any where on the board), retrieve the ball, then can restart their dribble, shoot again, or pass without a violation.

I remember seeing Kobe do that in the not too distant past.

The rule implies that even though the intent is to maintain possession or restart the dribble. a ball hitting the backboard is considered a shot and not a pass (or self pass as some might say).

No back court violation, count the basket.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

The rule implies that even though the intent is to maintain possession or restart the dribble. a ball hitting the backboard is considered a shot and not a pass (or self pass as some might say).

No back court violation, count the basket.

I'm not sure that's what the case implies, Jim...it seems like they would say that throwing it off the backboard is a try, but they don't say that at all. In my mind, this case play is more like throwing a pass off of a teammates back and then starting a new dribble. Not really sure that it applies to the video in the OP, but somebody asked for the case to be posted.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

What is the worst thing that can happen to you if you ALWAYS declare it a shot if it hits the backboard?

Team A commits a foul in the scrum for the rebound and loses as a result of free throws that would not have been awarded if it had been a TC foul.

Granted, no one would really consider it controversial since most people would also have considered it a shot. So even that's not a horrible outcome.

My take on the video isn't so much that I would have ruled it a pass (heat of the moment, it'd be a shot in my game too, I think), but when I saw backcourt was the ruling, I thought about it and saw the official's point. And it turned out he was RIGHT (remember, the article with quotes from players and coaches says it was a pass).

So while you may not love the call and would never, under any circumstances, make it yourself, the official was right here, even if he had to go obscure/nitpick/risk public ridicule (which we do nightly anyway) to be so.

[APG]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How can it be a shot? Do most varsity players take this kind of heave with 4 seconds still on the clock in your games?

One question is about as useful here as the other.

I've seen a D1 player toss the ball full court on a shot attempt with 10 seconds left in the half.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by APG

I've seen a D1 player toss the ball full court on a shot attempt with 10 seconds left in the half.

The point was that you couldn't judge what it was based on the quality of the act.

Do players shoot terrible shots when adequate time remains to do better?

Do players throw errant passes which may accidentally hit the backboard, or even the rim?

The answer is yes to both.

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by APG

I've seen a D1 player toss the ball full court on a shot attempt with 10 seconds left in the half.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You see white deflecting it in the video? A1 was not looking at the player down in the right corner so I don't think the was passing it there. I don't see this as a time to throw a no-look pass.

I have watched it again and again, it was a deflected pass. White was last to touch in front court so no BC violation that basket should have counted.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by ODog

Team A commits a foul in the scrum for the rebound and loses as a result of free throws that would not have been awarded if it had been a TC foul.

Granted, no one would really consider it controversial since most people would also have considered it a shot. So even that's not a horrible outcome.

My take on the video isn't so much that I would have ruled it a pass (heat of the moment, it'd be a shot in my game too, I think), but when I saw backcourt was the ruling, I thought about it and saw the official's point. And it turned out he was RIGHT (remember, the article with quotes from players and coaches says it was a pass).

So while you may not love the call and would never, under any circumstances, make it yourself, the official was right here, even if he had to go obscure/nitpick/risk public ridicule (which we do nightly anyway) to be so.

Odog,

I'm not really dissing this official - his judgement, his call. I'm not really dissing any official that is wanting to to make a judgement each time as to whether it is a pass or shot. But, I don't see any problem with any official that wants to factor in his judgement criteria that the 60' throw is above the rim and is headed for the rim/backboard and considers it a shot if it hits the rim/backboard (wow, why would he be throwing that ball towards the rim/backboard with 5 seconds left kind of thing). You use your pass judgement on teammates location, eyes looking toward streaking teammate or eyes looking toward rim/backboard, shooting form, etc. while I am trying to make certain that he does not get fouled, that he gets it off before the horn, that he doesn't land on an opponent who has established LGP, that an opponent doesn't leap up there and swat it away on it's downward flight, and after all that, will consider it a shot if it hits the backboard.

All I'm asking is why can't I deem it a shot (in my judgement) if it hits the backboard without demanding that you do as well? In short, err on the side of a shot?

[ODog]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

All I'm asking is why can't I deem it a shot (in my judgement) if it hits the backboard without demanding that you do as well? In short, err on the side of a shot?

You can. Most people have. I would have too. But the bulk of this crowd also deems it absurd and 100% out of the question that this guy ruled pass. They won't even consider his ruling ... and it turns out he was right.

I'm open to both outcomes, and you are too, so we're on the same page. I only quoted you b/c I was trying to answer your query as to the worst outcome arising from always erring on the shot side. That's what I came up with. We're cool

[canuckrefguy]

So in this situation, you can either:

1. Deem the play a "pass" - a judgement that is majorly controversial and subject to a great deal of disagreeement as to whether it is supported by either the letter or the spirit of the rules.

2. Deem the play a "shot", which nobody will disagree with, and likely can be supported by either the letter or spirit of the rules - and chalk it up to another one of those crazy plays.

Seems to me, you can no-call the BC violation on this play and likely be supported by the rulebook, and with not one single person in the gym questioning the referees at all.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Seems to me, you can no-call the BC violation with not one single person in the gym questioning the referees at all.

You can also whistle a player for 3 seconds after rebounding his own misses for 15 seconds with not one single person in the gym (except MAYBE a coach) questioning you at all either.

The will of the people is rarely the way in basketball.

But I know that's not your point. You laid out the scenario perfectly, and I would take the easier road as well.