Official's Jurisdiction

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Yes, exactly. I gather from the rest of your comment that if the incident is before anyone's warming up, you'd have site admin worry about it, but after, you'd issue the T. Is that right?

I work these games a lot on weekends where we sit in chairs in the corner (must be a Texas thing). If a coach approaches me after a game (never had one approach before) I will tell them to walk away. I wouldn't even consider a T because it really would have no effect on anything. I don't believe there is any rule or guideline that punishes a coach for this behavior in an AAU setting, but I really have no clue. If the coach is being a jacka$$ and won't go away, I will find the folks who are running the event and let them deal with it.

My reasoning here is that I know the AAU thing is a business and there is a completely different hierarchy when it comes to what's important - that's just the way it is. I let management handle things with belligerent people (unless it's during my game) because I know management does not want me dealing with the people who are paying the bills (coaches and fans). 99% of the time, they will back me up and we just move on. If I say something out of line or get myself in a situation where it even appears I acted inappropriately, I will likely bear the brunt of what happens.

Bottom line is a T really doesn't punish anyone between games. Only time I would consider a T is if I hadn't walked off the court yet and he engaged me and the other team had a chance to tie or win with free throws.

[ref3808]

I can almost always find a way to clear out of the immediate court area between tournament games even if it is just moving into the area near an adjacent court, or stepping outside or "behind" some equipment stored in a corner of the gym.

If I'm stuck for a place to run I stay with my partner so that there is a "witness" to anything that's said. If it's after the game has "ended" and I really feel something is out of hand I'll approach the tournament director and let him/her deal with it.

I'm avoiding any sort of T after the final horn/whistle in non-HS tournament such as youth or AAU.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I had a coach say to me " You suck, you will NEVER work one of my games" He was the varsity coach I was doing the JV game. Nothing I could do about it. He was sitting on opposite side of gym away from the team.

Terrapins Fan:

Oh yes there is quite a lot you can do. You cannot charge him with a TF but he is a representative of the schools involved that evening.

1) I am stopping the game and I am having Game Management remove him from the gym.

2) I will let the varsity game officials know what I did so that they can be alert to any possible misconduct by the HC.

3) I will send a Game Report to my StateHSAA the very next day.

MTD, Sr.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I work these games a lot on weekends where we sit in chairs in the corner (must be a Texas thing). If a coach approaches me after a game (never had one approach before) I will tell them to walk away. I wouldn't even consider a T because it really would have no effect on anything.

We have those chairs at one multi-court gym around here. No coach has ever followed me there.

To answer Longhorn's question, I may issue a T in the spirit of "what you don't call, you condone." It may be ridiculous at the time, but it would certainly prevent someone from making a habit of any post-game whining. The penalty isn't just amount the moment; it can be about preventing the behavior, and saving the next guy from having to deal with it.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by Andy

This is probably a "when in Rome" response, but if that happened here, the official would be expected to file a report with the state HS association. Our State HS association is really emphasizing sportsmanship in all athletic settings. There would definitely be some repercussions for this type of comment by a Varsity coach.

I am still refereeing (BETTER?), he is no longer coaching. I work his old school at the varsity level on a regular basis and I also work 2 other schools both bigger than his...he who smiles last...

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I put on a shirt or jacket over my stripes and sit somewhere that causes people to go out of their way to approach me. And unless it's a sexy mom they'll be approaching a man with a D.F.W.M scowl on his face.

Man are you bad! Love it!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I am still referring, he is no longer coaching. I work his old school at the varsity level on a regular basis and I also work 2 other schools both bigger than his...he who smiles last...

Referring to what?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by bainsey

We have those chairs at one multi-court gym around here. No coach has ever followed me there.

To answer Longhorn's question, I may issue a T in the spirit of "what you don't call, you condone." It may be ridiculous at the time, but it would certainly prevent someone from making a habit of any post-game whining. The penalty isn't just amount the moment; it can be about preventing the behavior, and saving the next guy from having to deal with it.

How exactly does a T prevent anything in this situation? Particularly in situation A in the OP where a coach says something to you after the game is already over.

I work a lot of the AAU circuit in the DC area and what someone else said about it being a business is spot on. If a coach or spectator does or says something out of line to the point that I cant handle it myself I'm going straight to tournament administration and having them handle it. In my experience and observations they always have. If they didnt then I just wouldnt be working those tournaments any more.

I really don't see what a T accomplishes in this setting when there is usually no set rule for Ts or ejections carrying over from one game to the next.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I had a coach say to me " You suck, you will NEVER work one of my games" He was the varsity coach I was doing the JV game. Nothing I could do about it. He was sitting on opposite side of gym away from the team.

That wouldn't fly here. He's part of the basketball program at that school and he is expected to conduct himself properly at all times.

Whack. Get out.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Fair enough.

How about an example for you then. During the switch between games, before anyone is warming up - perhaps even before more than 1 or 2 players have entered the gym, and one of the coaches is there earlier than the rest and says, "Oh great - you again." Or, worse. Maybe, "Oh great - you again. We've already lost." Or worse. Take his statement to whatever extreme you need to take it for purposes of the discussion.

I'm not that interested in how far the guy has to go to pull the trigger. I'm interested in how far before a game, in a setting like this, you feel you CAN justify a technical foul in that 2nd game.

I don't think I would issue a T for something done while I wasn't on the court. So anything that happened from when I left the court from game 1 to when I started watching warm-ups from the court on game 2 would result in a report to the convening authority but not a T.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

How exactly does a T prevent anything in this situation? Particularly in situation A in the OP where a coach says something to you after the game is already over.

I work a lot of the AAU circuit in the DC area and what someone else said about it being a business is spot on. If a coach or spectator does or says something out of line to the point that I cant handle it myself I'm going straight to tournament administration and having them handle it. In my experience and observations they always have. If they didnt then I just wouldnt be working those tournaments any more.

I really don't see what a T accomplishes in this setting when there is usually no set rule for Ts or ejections carrying over from one game to the next.

I was going to respond to Bainsey's post but you said it better than I would have.

[MD Longhorn]

Thanks for all the input, guys!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2

Man are you bad! Love it!

It's actually one of my pet peeves in camp or multi-game venues when officials walk or sit around in their stripes (especially those who untuck their shirts ).

Put a shirt or jacket on immediately after the game and it makes it easier to go unnoticed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's actually one of my pet peeves in camp or multi-game venues when officials walk or sit around in their stripes (especially those who untuck their shirts ).

Put a shirt or jacket on immediately after the game and it makes it easier to go unnoticed.

I'll be honest. I don't bother with this in YMCA or AAU games. Then again, I don't untuck my shirt, either. I consider it a uniform, and I do not half-*** any uniform in public.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's actually one of my pet peeves in camp or multi-game venues when officials walk or sit around in their stripes (especially those who untuck their shirts ).

Put a shirt or jacket on immediately after the game and it makes it easier to go unnoticed.

This wouldn't help much around here. We tend to see the same coaches a lot so they know who we are, plus we tend to be the only ones in the gym wearing black shorts (who aren't teenagers). We're easy to find if someone wants to find us. Also, I'm not going to run and hide - most are smart enough not to approach us. If they do I can handle it, but I won't get myself into trouble in the way I handle it.