Official's Jurisdiction

[MD Longhorn]

Serious question now.

We all know when an official's jurisdiction begins and ends during normal games.

What about back to back games, in either a youth, tourney, or camp type setting. One where the teams from game 1 and the teams from game 2 are completely distinct, but officials don't have time (or a place) to leave and return from.

Game one ends, you've checked your score with scorekeeper, and are about to sit between games. A) Coach from Game 1 says something T-worthy. B) Coach from the upcoming game 2 says something T-worthy. Which one (neither? both?) counts as a T in his game.

Or ... game one ends, players from both games (and random brothers, fans etc) are goofing around shooting - coaches from both games in the gym. Same questions A and B.

[Terrapins Fan]

How much time between games?

I will often go get water, go to the rest room. Sit down and talk to my partner about either the previous game of the up coming game.

In A, I pass and walk away.

In B, Why would he? Again, try to pass but it's based on how and what was said.

I had a coach say to me " You suck, you will NEVER work one of my games" He was the varsity coach I was doing the JV game. Nothing I could do about it. He was sitting on opposite side of gym away from the team.

[JugglingReferee]

We had this issue this past summer in football. A coach approached us where we had no place to go. Said coach was suspended and ultimately kicked out of the league.

In A), I have a T. In B), I have a T. In these tournaments, there are not places set aside for the referees, and often we have a 7-minute rest before the next game starts. I'm not taking any BS in that time.

When people other than player entitled to the floor are there shooting, dribbling, etc, I tell them that the court is for the players and that they need to move.

[JRutledge]

Either get off the court between games or respond in kind to the coach or tell the players to knock it off. Otherwise I would not do much of anything if the games are truly over. I would put that in my mental Rolodex and hope that they know I am still around for the next game.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Sometimes 20 minutes or so between games, but a few times the games were literally back to back with the 2nd game starting a little late due to the time it took to clear out.

Leaving the gym is not an option - that would be outside. Going to the bathroom is really the only option for getting out and coming back.

[JRutledge]

I guess it would really have to depend on what was said to me. What you mean by T-worthy is very broad and what happens in the heat of the battle might not even make me think second about it after the game. I might just say what I need to say back to the coach and move on. I have been in this situation many times in summer games or youth tournament stuff and usually a T never is something I would ever consider. I usually just say what I need to say and move on. And usually if I am unhappy with the comments or the comments are seen as inappropriate, they will know. But I am not so sure I will give a T as that will not solve anything. If someone did something before their game or will be soon participating, I will consider how little leash they get when the next game starts because they have proven to not have much common sense. If this was a high school game I would even consider filing a report as it was not in the context of the actual game and let the state and school deal with the behavior. If it is something else, then I would just make note and it will make me think less of them when the game starts.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

By T-worthy, I meant anything that you would consider worthy of a technical foul at that moment. Whatever that may be. Realizing everyone's lines are in different places, I meant to discuss the jurisdiction, not what actions would constitute a T. Take it as a given for the purposes of this discussion, that whatever he does is, in your mind, worthy of a technical foul.

If that happens at the times mentioned, do you have jurisdiction to call it?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

By T-worthy, I meant anything that you would consider worthy of a technical foul at that moment. Whatever that may be. Realizing everyone's lines are in different places, I meant to discuss the jurisdiction, not what actions would constitute a T. Take it as a given for the purposes of this discussion, that whatever he does is, in your mind, worthy of a technical foul.

If that happens at the times mentioned, do you have jurisdiction to call it?

I get what you are saying, but what they say after the game or before a game will likely not going to get a T from me unless it is a normal high school situation like coming onto the court 15 minutes before the game for the first time. I just do not see myself penalizing a team for comments in-between games. I just would not forget the comments and take them into account for future behavior. This is not a situation that has a clear rule IMO to cover, so you do what you feel is best. And if giving a T is something acceptable in your area, do just that. I might get questioned, "Why were you still around" kind of comment if I gave a T. So this is really what are the acceptable mores of your area.

Peace

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What about back to back games, in either a youth, tourney, or camp type setting.

Are you talking about an AAU type set of games? Not related to HS ball? If so, let the tourney or league director handle issues like that. This scenario doesn't really happen in high school games, does it?

[Adam]

I think you do have the jurisdiction; although I would be very hesitant to use it.

1) For the post game comment, there's a limit to how long afterwards I'd be willing to put a T in the book. Off the top of my head, probably the duration of the post-game ritual handshake.

2) Pregame, once the teams start warming up, the T is easy.

In AAU-type games, though, I would have no problem with someone giving these between-game Ts. If we have no where to go, then the threat of a T is likely the only suppressant keeping some of those clowns from exposing their idiocy.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

How much time between games?

I will often go get water, go to the rest room. Sit down and talk to my partner about either the previous game of the up coming game.

In A, I pass and walk away.

In B, Why would he? Again, try to pass but it's based on how and what was said.

I had a coach say to me " You suck, you will NEVER work one of my games" He was the varsity coach I was doing the JV game. Nothing I could do about it. He was sitting on opposite side of gym away from the team.

This is probably a "when in Rome" response, but if that happened here, the official would be expected to file a report with the state HS association. Our State HS association is really emphasizing sportsmanship in all athletic settings. There would definitely be some repercussions for this type of comment by a Varsity coach.

[Raymond]

I put on a shirt or jacket over my stripes and sit somewhere that causes people to go out of their way to approach me. And unless it's a sexy mom they'll be approaching a man with a D.F.W.M scowl on his face.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I get what you are saying, but what they say after the game or before a game will likely not going to get a T from me unless it is a normal high school situation like coming onto the court 15 minutes before the game for the first time. I just do not see myself penalizing a team for comments in-between games. I just would not forget the comments and take them into account for future behavior. This is not a situation that has a clear rule IMO to cover, so you do what you feel is best. And if giving a T is something acceptable in your area, do just that. I might get questioned, "Why were you still around" kind of comment if I gave a T. So this is really what are the acceptable mores of your area.

Peace

Fair enough.

How about an example for you then. During the switch between games, before anyone is warming up - perhaps even before more than 1 or 2 players have entered the gym, and one of the coaches is there earlier than the rest and says, "Oh great - you again." Or, worse. Maybe, "Oh great - you again. We've already lost." Or worse. Take his statement to whatever extreme you need to take it for purposes of the discussion.

I'm not that interested in how far the guy has to go to pull the trigger. I'm interested in how far before a game, in a setting like this, you feel you CAN justify a technical foul in that 2nd game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Are you talking about an AAU type set of games?

Yes, exactly. I gather from the rest of your comment that if the incident is before anyone's warming up, you'd have site admin worry about it, but after, you'd issue the T. Is that right?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Fair enough.

How about an example for you then. During the switch between games, before anyone is warming up - perhaps even before more than 1 or 2 players have entered the gym, and one of the coaches is there earlier than the rest and says, "Oh great - you again." Or, worse. Maybe, "Oh great - you again. We've already lost." Or worse. Take his statement to whatever extreme you need to take it for purposes of the discussion.

I'm not that interested in how far the guy has to go to pull the trigger. I'm interested in how far before a game, in a setting like this, you feel you CAN justify a technical foul in that 2nd game.

Those comments you mentioned would not led to a technical from me if it was before the game. The coach just better be on their best behavior when the game starts by the way, but their pre-game comments would just tell me what rope they just will not get when they act out during the game. I am only imagining this from a high school standpoint and any pre-game or post game behavior would result in other penalties if they took place with school personnel. AAU is not the case and I might read the situation and do all kinds of things. But giving a T probably would be the absolute last thing I would be trying to do as it probably would have no real benefit.

Peace